People can and do have "private" discussions about articles via email. Is there any rule prohibiting this?
Is there rule against discussing articles on this mailing list (knowing full well that not all Wikipedians subscribe to this list?)
Is there any rule that forbids any discussion of an article anywhere except on that article's Talk page?
If the answer to the above is "no," then what possible objection can there be to non-English discussions on a talk page? These discussions are _more_ public and accessible than _any_ of the above.
Consider it Wikiquette then.
Compare with a social situation where all those present share a language. For a few of the participants to suddenly switch to a language understood by only some to make private comments is quite simply rude. Of course, these same people could excuse themselves and have a private conversation or contact each other later to discuss matters in private ... socially this is more acceptable. Likewise, brash whispering in such a situation is more likely to offend than a discreet word in private later.
It may indeed be objectionable, but is probably a matter of manners, not policy.
dpbsmith@verizon.net wrote:
People can and do have "private" discussions about articles via email. Is there any rule prohibiting this?
Is there rule against discussing articles on this mailing list (knowing full well that not all Wikipedians subscribe to this list?)
Is there any rule that forbids any discussion of an article anywhere except on that article's Talk page?
If the answer to the above is "no," then what possible objection can there be to non-English discussions on a talk page? These discussions are _more_ public and accessible than _any_ of the above. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
--- dpbsmith@verizon.net wrote:
People can and do have "private" discussions about articles via email. Is there any rule prohibiting this?
Is there rule against discussing articles on this mailing list (knowing full well that not all Wikipedians subscribe to this list?)
Is there any rule that forbids any discussion of an article anywhere except on that article's Talk page?
If the answer to the above is "no," then what possible objection can there be to non-English discussions on a talk page? These discussions are _more_ public and accessible than _any_ of the above.
Well, for one thing, it's rude. And it's especially troublesome when one of the people involved is a sysop.
RickK
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On 6/14/05, Rick giantsrick13@yahoo.com wrote:
Well, for one thing, it's rude. And it's especially troublesome when one of the people involved is a sysop.
This sounds more and more like a specific case. Have you tried to talk to him or her about it?
/Habj
--- Habj sweetadelaide@gmail.com wrote:
On 6/14/05, Rick giantsrick13@yahoo.com wrote:
Well, for one thing, it's rude. And it's
especially
troublesome when one of the people involved is a sysop.
This sounds more and more like a specific case. Have you tried to talk to him or her about it?
/Habj
Discussions have not been productive.
RickK
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Rick wrote about people having discussions in languages other than English:
Well, for one thing, it's rude.
Maybe it's just me, but my impression is that English speakers tend to find it more rude than others. *Could* be (but need not be) interpreted as anglo-chauvinism.
Timwi
--- Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Rick wrote about people having discussions in languages other than English:
Well, for one thing, it's rude.
Maybe it's just me, but my impression is that English speakers tend to find it more rude than others. *Could* be (but need not be) interpreted as anglo-chauvinism.
Timwi
What a crock. If you and I went to another language's wiki and started writing comments in only English, don't you think there would be objections?
RickK
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Actually, no. I have asked a question on the Hungarian Wikipedia in English and been politely answers. I know from playing BatMUD for years that almost everyone in Finland is fluent in English and would generally not get their nose out of joint should someone (on a talk page) made a comment in English. I also know (from playing BatMUD) that a tiny minority might use it as an excuse to express their "Puuh." Anyway, I don't see a problem in occasional conversations in Turkish or Farsi. After they settle whatever issue they have with each other they can bring it back in English for the rest of us.
On Jun 19, 2005, at 11:09 PM, Rick wrote:
What a crock. If you and I went to another language's wiki and started writing comments in only English, don't you think there would be objections?
RickK
On 6/20/05, Rick giantsrick13@yahoo.com wrote:
If you and I went to another language's wiki and started writing comments in only English, don't you think there would be objections?
IMO it would all depend on how and why you did it, and how you responded to comments to your extensive writing in English. The topic of this list is English Wikipedia: I write about sv:WP below because I think a comparison adds to the understanding of the complexity of the subject.
At Swedish WP there are people who do post quite a lot in English on talk pages. The reason for non-Swedish-speakers to write comments in English on Swedish Wikipedia could be many: the topic might be international Wikipedia colloaborations etc, something about the WikiMedia board elections etc (see Angelas comments previously) but also sometimes comments regarding article content etc. We have an editor from Japan who writes about international golf players at Swedish Wikipedia: I guess he mainly adds dates for tournaments, victories and similar, since he doesn't speak Swedish - I haven't checked, only seen some of the discussions. He discusses a lot on the talk pages, to be able to use the right words etc. If anything, I think people find his efforts kind of cute. The non-Swedish-speakers or poor-Swedish-speakers who edit without discussing - mainly by exchanging one word for another, or cutting parts of articles away - are IMO much more of a problem.
We should probably realise, though, that if he and three or four other guys discussed the golf articles at sv:WP in Japanese instead of English, that would be something else. I guess Swedish is not as bad as Japanese to the average English speaker, but almost (bork bork). ;-)
To add a small complication, there is a situation where I will probably always add a comment in Swedish on an en:WP talk page, after what other stuff I've written in English. This is if I am adressing a person who I know is from Finland and whose Swedish is good; so good that it might be his/her first language. Due to history and the relationship between Finnish and Swedish nations and languages, not acknowledging I am talking to a fellow Swedish speaker although from Finland is a bit... if Ifail to do this I feel like a jerk. I don't ask you to understand the mechanisms behind this, and quite possibly it is more in me than in them. I just ask you to not let general encouragement of posting in English at en:WP go so far as to frown on this kind of small comments; it might make life at English Wikipedia a bit more complicated for us than you understand.
I am still very much in favour of encouragements of taking the on topic parts of discussions in English.
/Habj