Ed writes:
This whole thing smacks of an "anti-religious agenda", rather than any sincere effort towards neutrality. When we couldn't agree on British vs. American spelling, we chose this solution:...
...Ever hear of live and let live? Sheesh!
I am rather disturbed by the rather paranoid claims filling this list that people are anti-Christian, and persectuing Christians, and discriminating against Christians, etc. These angry accusations are false, hurtful, and simply disingenuous. I can't believe that anyone seriously believes that following NPOV and referring to dates in a neutral way is meant as an evil plot against that poor and few in number minority, the Christians....
It seems to me, rather, that some people are just venting anger, as they refuse to let others "live and let live". Frankly, for the majority of people on this planet who do not worship Jesus as their God, messiah and saviour, it makes no sense to force them to use religious Christian terminology. It is those who ask for a "live and let live policy" who are being attacked, not the Christians.
I already have put up with enough abuse today, as several of my fellow faculty and staff came - as well as many students - in with T-shirts advertising "Jesus Day" at a public school. It had a motto that said that only through Jesus will anyone find God, and that all others are doomed to be without God (i.e. damned to Hell.) Apparently being in the vast majority is not enough for some right-wing Evangelical Protestant Christians. They have to push their threats of damnation via religious proselytizing in public arenas?!
I'm one step away from filing a complaint, as this clearly constitues a hostile workplace environment. And what's next? Jihad T-shirts from Islamists demanding that all Americans accept Allah and the Quran? Atheist t-shirts from Communists demanding that all Americans accept Marx and Engels? That behaviour is just great...if you hate your neighbor and want to start a religious war.
Let's stop pretending we have NPOV and that we tolerate our fellow man, and let's start acting that way in practice.
Robert (RK)
I�m astounded by people who want to "know" the universe when it�s hard enough to find your way around Chinatown. - Woody Allen
Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html
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Robert wrote:
Ed writes:
This whole thing smacks of an "anti-religious agenda", rather than any sincere effort towards neutrality. When we couldn't agree on British vs. American spelling, we chose this solution:...
...Ever hear of live and let live? Sheesh!
I am rather disturbed by the rather paranoid claims filling this list that people are anti-Christian, and persectuing Christians, and discriminating against Christians, etc. These angry accusations are false, hurtful, and simply disingenuous. I can't believe that anyone seriously believes that following NPOV and referring to dates in a neutral way is meant as an evil plot against that poor and few in number minority, the Christians....
At present, there is *no* neutral way to represent dates. Let's just call a spade a spade and not try to make something sound like something it's not.
It seems to me, rather, that some people are just venting anger, as they refuse to let others "live and let live". Frankly, for the majority of people on this planet who do not worship Jesus as their God, messiah and saviour, it makes no sense to force them to use religious Christian terminology. It is those who ask for a "live and let live policy" who are being attacked, not the Christians.
If you feel you are being forced to use Christian terminology, why use the Christian date system at all? CE is still based (albeit incorrectly) on the birthdate of one Jesus of Nazareth.
I already have put up with enough abuse today, as several of my fellow faculty and staff came - as well as many students - in with T-shirts advertising "Jesus Day" at a public school. It had a motto that said that only through Jesus will anyone find God, and that all others are doomed to be without God (i.e. damned to Hell.) Apparently being in the vast majority is not enough for some right-wing Evangelical Protestant Christians. They have to push their threats of damnation via religious proselytizing in public arenas?!
e-van-gel-i-cal adj., of the Gospel noun, one who is committed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ; the only gospel of salvation; by grace, through faith, under the authority of the Bible, empowered by the Holy Spirit, to the Glory of God.
You live in the US? You have heard of Freedom of Religion?
I'm one step away from filing a complaint, as this clearly constitues a hostile workplace environment. And what's next? Jihad T-shirts from Islamists demanding that all Americans accept Allah and the Quran? Atheist t-shirts from Communists demanding that all Americans accept Marx and Engels? That behaviour is just great...if you hate your neighbor and want to start a religious war.
You live in the US? You have heard of Freedom of Speech?
We live in a society that has seen the marginalisation, desecration and humilitation of Jesus Christ. We live in a society where Jesus Christ is used as a curse, part of gutter language. Think about how you are offending others, before you jump up and down saying that they are offending you.
Let's stop pretending we have NPOV and that we tolerate our fellow man, and let's start acting that way in practice.
Wikipedia has a policy of NPOV. There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance.
Tolerance, from the Latin /tolerare/ 'endure'. When you put up with something.
Most people use tolerance when they really mean acceptance. Just because someone tolerates something - and people should tolerate their fellow man and woman - doesn't mean they have to accept it.
- -- Alphax GnuPG key: 0xF874C613 - http://tinyurl.com/8mpg9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis
Sure, not everyone has the Christian religion, but aren't the terms BC and AD most commonly used amonst archeologists and historians? We shouldn't give up on an accurate description of the most used terminology in favour of neutrality if the world isn't neutral about it itself.
While the term incorporates a religious figure - Christ - I don't really see the use of it as POV. You don't have to be Christian to actually understand what it means.
--Mgm
On 5/20/05, Robert rkscience100@yahoo.com wrote:
Ed writes:
This whole thing smacks of an "anti-religious agenda", rather than any sincere effort towards neutrality. When we couldn't agree on British vs. American spelling, we chose this solution:...
...Ever hear of live and let live? Sheesh!
I am rather disturbed by the rather paranoid claims filling this list that people are anti-Christian, and persectuing Christians, and discriminating against Christians, etc. These angry accusations are false, hurtful, and simply disingenuous. I can't believe that anyone seriously believes that following NPOV and referring to dates in a neutral way is meant as an evil plot against that poor and few in number minority, the Christians....
It seems to me, rather, that some people are just venting anger, as they refuse to let others "live and let live". Frankly, for the majority of people on this planet who do not worship Jesus as their God, messiah and saviour, it makes no sense to force them to use religious Christian terminology. It is those who ask for a "live and let live policy" who are being attacked, not the Christians.
I already have put up with enough abuse today, as several of my fellow faculty and staff came - as well as many students - in with T-shirts advertising "Jesus Day" at a public school. It had a motto that said that only through Jesus will anyone find God, and that all others are doomed to be without God (i.e. damned to Hell.) Apparently being in the vast majority is not enough for some right-wing Evangelical Protestant Christians. They have to push their threats of damnation via religious proselytizing in public arenas?!
I'm one step away from filing a complaint, as this clearly constitues a hostile workplace environment. And what's next? Jihad T-shirts from Islamists demanding that all Americans accept Allah and the Quran? Atheist t-shirts from Communists demanding that all Americans accept Marx and Engels? That behaviour is just great...if you hate your neighbor and want to start a religious war.
Let's stop pretending we have NPOV and that we tolerate our fellow man, and let's start acting that way in practice.
Robert (RK)
I'm astounded by people who want to "know" the universe when it's hard enough to find your way around Chinatown. - Woody Allen
Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
From: Robert rkscience100@yahoo.com
I am rather disturbed by the rather paranoid claims filling this list that people are anti-Christian, and persectuing Christians, and discriminating against Christians, etc. These angry accusations are false, hurtful, and simply disingenuous.
A rather interesting parallel to the accusations that have sometimes filled this list claiming that people are anti-Semitic, don't you think?
Jay.
A rather interesting parallel to the accusations that have sometimes filled this list claiming that people are anti-Semitic, don't you think?
Jay.
Of all the ways in which Wikipedia might change the world, changing religious views is one of the least plausible. I think we should stick to trying to be informative.
Charles