From a BoingBoing
posthttp://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/13/ford-car-owners-are.html :
Josh sez, "The folks at BMC (Black Mustang Club) automotive forum wanted to
put together a calendar featuring members' cars, and print it through CafePress. Photos were submitted, the layout was set, and... CafePress notifies the site admin that pictures of Ford cars cannot be printed. Not just Ford logos, not just Mustang logos, the car -as a whole- is a Ford trademark and its image can't be reproduced without permission.
From a BoingBoing posthttp://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/13/ford-car-owners-are.html:
...CafePress notifies the site admin that pictures of Ford cars cannot be printed. Not just Ford logos, not just Mustang logos, the car -as a whole- is a Ford trademark and its image can't be reproduced without permission.
Okay, but the key question is: is this Ford's position, or CafePress's paranoid supposition of what Ford's worst-case position might be?
On 14/01/2008, Rich Holton richholton@gmail.com wrote:
From a BoingBoing posthttp://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/13/ford-car-owners-are.html :
There could be a potential trademark claim in this case with people mistaking the calender as an official ford product (ford probably sell or at least distribute calenders of their own). It is unlikely to have any impact on us (lots of our images have potential trademark issues).
On 14/01/2008, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 14/01/2008, Rich Holton richholton@gmail.com wrote:
From a BoingBoing posthttp://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/13/ford-car-owners-are.html
There could be a potential trademark claim in this case with people mistaking the calender as an official ford product (ford probably sell or at least distribute calenders of their own). It is unlikely to have any impact on us (lots of our images have potential trademark issues).
In any case, the car club will be fighting back.
- d.
On 1/15/08, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 14/01/2008, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 14/01/2008, Rich Holton richholton@gmail.com wrote:
From a BoingBoing posthttp://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/13/ford-car-owners-are.html
There could be a potential trademark claim in this case with people mistaking the calender as an official ford product (ford probably sell or at least distribute calenders of their own). It is unlikely to have any impact on us (lots of our images have potential trademark issues).
In any case, the car club will be fighting back.
Fast. Depends how many lawyers they can afford in fighting this discrimination case.
On 14/01/2008, Skyring skyring@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/15/08, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 14/01/2008, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 14/01/2008, Rich Holton richholton@gmail.com wrote:
From a BoingBoing posthttp://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/13/ford-car-owners-are.html
There could be a potential trademark claim in this case with people mistaking the calender as an official ford product (ford probably sell or at least distribute calenders of their own). It is unlikely to have any impact on us (lots of our images have potential trademark issues).
In any case, the car club will be fighting back.
Fast. Depends how many lawyers they can afford in fighting this discrimination case.
Not a discrimination case. Straightforward IP case. Problem is I suspect Ford may have a case and a win would only encourage them.
On 1/15/08, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 14/01/2008, Skyring skyring@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/15/08, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 14/01/2008, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 14/01/2008, Rich Holton richholton@gmail.com wrote:
From a BoingBoing post<http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/13/ford-car-owners-are.html
There could be a potential trademark claim in this case with people mistaking the calender as an official ford product (ford probably
sell
or at least distribute calenders of their own). It is unlikely to
have
any impact on us (lots of our images have potential trademark
issues).
In any case, the car club will be fighting back.
Fast. Depends how many lawyers they can afford in fighting this discrimination case.
Not a discrimination case.
Sorry. An honest mistake.
On Jan 14, 2008 2:18 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
Not a discrimination case. Straightforward IP case. Problem is I suspect Ford may have a case and a win would only encourage them.
A lot of plastic model makers dropped parts of their product lines (of cars, aircraft, etc) after IP claims similar to this were made against them.
I diagree with all this, but IP law seems to be headed there.
On Jan 14, 2008 4:16 PM, George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com wrote:
A lot of plastic model makers dropped parts of their product lines (of cars, aircraft, etc) after IP claims similar to this were made against them.
I diagree with all this, but IP law seems to be headed there.
A similar thing happened in model railroading when Union Pacific decided to throw over a century of precedent in the trash and decide that not only could it claim that models with its current name, insignia, paint scheme etc. were trademark-infringing - even though it had allowed such models to be made for pretty much the entire history of the company - but also that historical versions of such that were no longer used in trade were also going to be treated as infringing, and furthermore that the name, marks and insignia of every railroad the Union Pacific had ever purchased, taken over, or merged with and subsumed were also in that category, even though the company had discarded such names and trademarks as quickly as they could, replacing them with their own paint, names and logos.
Of course, they then went ahead and decided to paint a bunch of new locomotives in 'commemorative historic schemes of railroads now part of Union Pacific', and the cynical view is that this was done precisely to establish a better claim to those marks as being in current use.
Pretty much all the manufacturers went along with it, too, with a few notable exceptions; I'm not sure what happened in court with those (probably came to a confidential settlement).
Bullying big companies with lawyers are killing good parts of fair use and the reasonable traditional limits on trademarks' scope.
-Matt
Here's an update, with a major reversal from the original story:
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/25/black-mustang-club-c.html
On Jan 16, 2008 9:08 AM, Matthew Brown morven@gmail.com wrote:
On Jan 14, 2008 4:16 PM, George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com wrote:
A lot of plastic model makers dropped parts of their product lines (of cars, aircraft, etc) after IP claims similar to this were made against them.
I diagree with all this, but IP law seems to be headed there.
A similar thing happened in model railroading when Union Pacific decided to throw over a century of precedent in the trash and decide that not only could it claim that models with its current name, insignia, paint scheme etc. were trademark-infringing - even though it had allowed such models to be made for pretty much the entire history of the company - but also that historical versions of such that were no longer used in trade were also going to be treated as infringing, and furthermore that the name, marks and insignia of every railroad the Union Pacific had ever purchased, taken over, or merged with and subsumed were also in that category, even though the company had discarded such names and trademarks as quickly as they could, replacing them with their own paint, names and logos.
Of course, they then went ahead and decided to paint a bunch of new locomotives in 'commemorative historic schemes of railroads now part of Union Pacific', and the cynical view is that this was done precisely to establish a better claim to those marks as being in current use.
Pretty much all the manufacturers went along with it, too, with a few notable exceptions; I'm not sure what happened in court with those (probably came to a confidential settlement).
Bullying big companies with lawyers are killing good parts of fair use and the reasonable traditional limits on trademarks' scope.
-Matt
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