Marc Riddell wrote
"Daniel R. Tobias"
Though, in the "some animals are more equal than others" environment of Wikipedia, there's a handful of powerful people (sometimes termed the "clique" or "cabal") who, if they decide that some banned user is Evil Incarnate, will promptly add to their Enemies List any admin that dares to unblock such a user, try to shame that admin into reversing the action, and agitate for the desysopping or banning of the non-groupthink-compatible admin if he/she resists that.
on 9/30/07 10:13 AM, charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com at charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
You of course have entirely reliable sources documenting every syllable of this.
Charles,
Are you seriously questioning the accuracy of Daniel's statement?
Marc Riddell
The "cabal" is of course a canard. The idea that anyone gets desysopped for unblocking strikes me as far-fetched. Simply stringing together bits from grievances that bannees propagate isn't actually an argument. It would be foolish for anyone to say that "X never happens". The longer I'm here, the more I have evidence for every combination of circumstances arising, and being played out according to the possible scenarios. But if there is a powerful group on the site, I think I'd know about it.
Charles
----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam
"Daniel R. Tobias"
Though, in the "some animals are more equal than others" environment of Wikipedia, there's a handful of powerful people (sometimes termed the "clique" or "cabal") who, if they decide that some banned user is Evil Incarnate, will promptly add to their Enemies List any admin that dares to unblock such a user, try to shame that admin into reversing the action, and agitate for the desysopping or banning of the non-groupthink-compatible admin if he/she resists that.
on 9/30/07 10:13 AM, charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com at charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
You of course have entirely reliable sources documenting every syllable of this.
Marc Riddell wrote
Charles,
Are you seriously questioning the accuracy of Daniel's statement?
Marc Riddell
on 9/30/07 12:25 PM, charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com at charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
The "cabal" is of course a canard. The idea that anyone gets desysopped for unblocking strikes me as far-fetched. Simply stringing together bits from grievances that bannees propagate isn't actually an argument.
On the other hand, if you see battles as individual skirmishes that are annoying, but which can be dealt with quickly, you can miss that pattern which represents the war they are part of.
It would be foolish for anyone to say that "X never happens". The longer I'm here, the more I have evidence for every combination of circumstances arising, and being played out according to the possible scenarios. But if there is a powerful group on the site, I think I'd know about it.
Charles, take an honest look at the culture you are involved in here. The greatest problems this Project must confront in the coming year are the state of its internal structure, and the dysfunctional interactions of its people.
Marc
On 30/09/2007, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
Charles, take an honest look at the culture you are involved in here. The greatest problems this Project must confront in the coming year are the state of its internal structure, and the dysfunctional interactions of its people.
That is, however, quite different from assuming problems are the product of conspiracy. And attempting to deal with the problem by assuming it to be the product of conspiracy will only lead to a witchhunt when obvious conspirators could not be nailed with evidence rather than mere repetition of conjecture. I submit that this would be counterproductive.
- d.
On 30/09/2007, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
Charles, take an honest look at the culture you are involved in here. The greatest problems this Project must confront in the coming year are the state of its internal structure, and the dysfunctional interactions of its people.
on 9/30/07 1:12 PM, David Gerard at dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
That is, however, quite different from assuming problems are the product of conspiracy. And attempting to deal with the problem by assuming it to be the product of conspiracy will only lead to a witchhunt when obvious conspirators could not be nailed with evidence rather than mere repetition of conjecture. I submit that this would be counterproductive.
David,
The first priority must be to identify the problems - and to solve them. Once this is done, preventing them from reoccurring would involve identifying the original causes. To debate now whether a conspiracy was involved would be a waste of time and energy, and a negative diversion from the real task at hand.
Personally, I don't believe a true "conspiracy" has been involved here. It is people being people, and being allowed to act out without sufficient, effective, responsible checks and balances.
Marc