As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care more about abuse reports.
They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
Their server IPs are: encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226 pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the email addresses to report abuse to are now: abuse@colo4dallas.com, support@colo4dallas.com, abuse@cogentco.com
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
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. wrote:
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the email addresses to report abuse to are now: abuse@colo4dallas.com, support@colo4dallas.com, abuse@cogentco.com
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
As someone who was an insider for a while, that won't happen. They know full well what they're doing, and they wouldn't move to a new host if it wasn't going to serve their purposes.
-Jeff
. wrote:
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the email addresses to report abuse to are now: abuse@colo4dallas.com, support@colo4dallas.com, abuse@cogentco.com
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
I still think that we should get as many people as possible to sent abuse reports; it would be especially great if the people who were attacked sent in the reports. Even if it might not work, we can still try. --Mets501
. wrote:
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many Wikipedians.
Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's bedroom, probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would take any of the random ravings seriously.
Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
Stan
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is blockedhttp://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULTat my school, so I cannot check the site.
On 1/24/07, Stan Shebs stanshebs@earthlink.net wrote:
. wrote:
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many Wikipedians.
Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's bedroom, probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would take any of the random ravings seriously.
Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
Stan
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Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless and Pornography It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile Wikipedians --Mets501
-----Original Message----- From: wikien-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of . Firefoxman Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:31 AM To: English Wikipedia Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is blockedhttp://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadr amatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULTat my school, so I cannot check the site.
On 1/24/07, Stan Shebs stanshebs@earthlink.net wrote:
. wrote:
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many Wikipedians.
Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's bedroom, probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would take any of the random ravings seriously.
Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
Stan
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-- -Firefoxman _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Do they have any real content at all?
On 1/24/07, Mets501 mets501wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless and Pornography It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile Wikipedians --Mets501
-----Original Message----- From: wikien-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of . Firefoxman Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:31 AM To: English Wikipedia Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is blocked< http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadr amatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT
at
my school, so I cannot check the site.
On 1/24/07, Stan Shebs stanshebs@earthlink.net wrote:
. wrote:
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many Wikipedians.
Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's bedroom, probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would take any of the random ravings seriously.
Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
Stan
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-- -Firefoxman _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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· Firefoxman wrote:
Do they have any real content at all?
On 1/24/07, Mets501 mets501wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless and Pornography It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile Wikipedians --Mets501
They handle web memes better than we do in terms of accuracy, maybe not as much as taste. Their "attacks" on Wikipedians constitute a minimal amount of their content, albeit more than what was there when I was a contributor. Most of their content revolves around LiveJournal.
-Jeff
Just my two cents as one of those Wikipedians that has been targeted.
The pages really aren't that nice. Over the past few months, the simple factthat the page about me (and on nathanr, to an extent) is there has almost driven off the wiki several times, and in fact, it was the final reason behind my departure.
Any reason to take ED down would be good, although it probably won't happen.
- Will (Sceptre)
On Wednesday 24 January 2007 12:32, Will wrote:
Any reason to take ED down would be good, although it probably won't happen.
Oh, grow up.
Indeed, quite on the contrary, as someone who is also targetted. Just ignore them. We leave tthem alone, they leave the rest of us alone, then there's nothing more to pursue.
On 25/01/07, Kurt Maxwell Weber kmw@armory.com wrote:
On Wednesday 24 January 2007 12:32, Will wrote:
Any reason to take ED down would be good, although it probably won't happen.
Oh, grow up.
Kurt Weber kmw@armory.com
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On 1/24/07, Will sceptre@tintower.co.uk wrote:
Just my two cents as one of those Wikipedians that has been targeted.
The pages really aren't that nice. Over the past few months, the simple factthat the page about me (and on nathanr, to an extent) is there has almost driven off the wiki several times, and in fact, it was the final reason behind my departure.
Any reason to take ED down would be good, although it probably won't happen.
A good reason NOT to take ED down would be that they aren't breaking the law and that there's no internet-wide general policy against being a steaming asshole.
I think it's entirely appropriate for Wikipedia to offiically ignore (actively not allow linking, etc) ED given its activities. But, something being hostile to the Wikipedia community in no way gives Wikipedia special rights to go out into the rest of the Internet and "stop them".
If their harrassment of you or others rises to the level of a civil tort in the US, then by all means call an attorney. If it rises to the level of criminal, by all means call the police and the ISP.
As others have posted, it's exposing Wikipedia to potential liability to be talking about "takedown strategies" for another website on a Wikipedia mailing list. Please stop.
Do they have any real content at all?
Of course they have "real content". It's basically falls into 3 categories:
There's documentation of internet memes and inside jokes, which is often accurate, and much more thorough than our documentation of the same, because they have no WP:V or WP:NOR restrictions. A lot of this content comes from 4chan and related sites.
Secondly, they've got a lot of satirical material relating to sexism, racism, homophobia, and basic fear and intolerance against every demographic group you care to name. Some people think they're racist and hateful, others recognize it as a caricature of intolerance, intended to be funny.
Third, they document Internet "drama", mercilessly poking fun at people whose online activities they find to be ridiculous. Most of their targets are LiveJournal users, with some bloggers and podcasters, and they do seem to have a special place in their hearts for Wikipedians. It's a sort of gonzo-journalism style documentation, because they're not above creating drama and documenting it at the same time.
Personally, I think that if we calll them an "attack site" and make a big deal out of their nonsense, that we're just creating more drama, and handing them free content. It seems to me that the reasonable reaction is to note that what they do has nothing to do with writing an encyclopedia, and to pretty much ignore them.
If you want to stop them making "attack articles" about Wikipedians, one way is to refrain from generating drama. There's also a drama-positive situation existing where both wikis nurture misconceptions about the other. As someone who appreciates both wikis, I continue to explain to each that the editors of the other are actually human beings, and not some kind of monsters. If they stop making fun of Wikipedians, it'll be because they decide we're cool after all, not because we declare war on them and somehow win. Since I happen to think that Wikipedia is cool, I think this is an attainable goal.
Tony/GTBacchus
From: "· Firefoxman" enwpmail@gmail.com
Do they have any real content at all?
On 1/24/07, Mets501 mets501wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Encyclopaedia Dramatica would definitely fall under Obscene/Tasteless
and
Pornography It's basically just a nonsense attack site, mostly on high-profile Wikipedians --Mets501
-----Original Message----- From: wikien-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of . Firefoxman Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:31 AM To: English Wikipedia Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to stop Encyclopedia Dramatica from making attack articles on us
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is blocked< http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http://encyclopediadr amatica.com/index.php/Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT
at
my school, so I cannot check the site.
On 1/24/07, Stan Shebs stanshebs@earthlink.net wrote:
. wrote:
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many Wikipedians.
Geez, how can you even tell? The place looks like a teenager's bedroom, probably not coincidentally. I don't see how any ISP would take any of the random ravings seriously.
Also, it's useful as a motivator for here - WP would look like that if all the vandal fighters went on wikibreak for a month. :-)
Stan
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-- -Firefoxman _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Tony Jacobs wrote:
As someone who appreciates both wikis, I continue to explain to each that the editors of the other are actually human beings, and not some kind of monsters.
Sure they're humans - average-age-14 humans, from the looks of it.
If they stop making fun of Wikipedians, it'll be because they decide we're cool after all, not because we declare war on them and somehow win.
I *so* don't care whether 14-year-olds think I'm cool or not.
Stan
From: Stan Shebs stanshebs@earthlink.net
Tony Jacobs wrote:
As someone who appreciates both wikis, I continue to explain to each that the editors of the other are actually human beings, and not some kind of monsters.
Sure they're humans - average-age-14 humans, from the looks of it.
I don't know of any that young. The ones I know range in age from 19 to 30. I think a lot are college age.
If they stop making fun of Wikipedians, it'll be because they decide we're cool after all, not because we declare war on them and somehow win.
I *so* don't care whether 14-year-olds think I'm cool or not.
Then you're contributing to a conversation about "how to stop" them... for what reason? You're making a point here? Are you advocating anything I'm not? You think we shouldn't ignore them? You think we should go ahead and generate lots of drama in some kind of wiki-war?
I find your reply puzzling.
Tony/GTBacchus
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Tony Jacobs wrote:
Then you're contributing to a conversation about "how to stop" them... for what reason? You're making a point here? Are you advocating anything I'm not? You think we shouldn't ignore them? You think we should go ahead and generate lots of drama in some kind of wiki-war?
I think that the time spent talking about them is milliseconds we'll never get back. They are of no significance.
Stan
On Jan 24, 2007, at 11:31, · Firefoxman wrote:
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is blocked<http://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http:// encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/ Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULT>at my school, so I cannot check the site.
Trying to be as NPOV as possible, Encyclopedia Dramatica is meant to be a humor site. It originated from LJ drama (which was a bit of a fiasco for those involved, if I remember correctly), and thus has always allowed and encouraged articles on livejournal users and internet personas. Wikipedians are fair game. Their humor style tends towards the "tasteless": shock images, profanity, and obscene mental images. Some people find this funny; I don't happen to, but it's their business. They do have "real" content, that is content on real world things, but most of their articles last I checked were internet related.
As for knocking them off their host, I don't think Wikipedia ever would be or should be involved in this. If different people want to initiate this, that's their business. Doesn't seem to be appropriate for a Wikipedia mailing list, but that's just my opinion.
--keitei
On 24/01/07, Keitei nihthraefn@gmail.com wrote:
On Jan 24, 2007, at 11:31, · Firefoxman wrote:
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is blockedhttp://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http:// encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/ Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULTat my school, so I cannot check the site.
Trying to be as NPOV as possible, Encyclopedia Dramatica is meant to be a humor site. It originated from LJ drama (which was a bit of a fiasco for those involved, if I remember correctly)
It originated from LJ drama and became ED after a very short stint on enwp, about one day long :-)
As for knocking them off their host, I don't think Wikipedia ever would be or should be involved in this. If different people want to initiate this, that's their business. Doesn't seem to be appropriate for a Wikipedia mailing list, but that's just my opinion.
Quite. If you want to lead a crusade to 'clean up' the internet, please feel free, but don't do it here unless we're actively involved. (The same applies to starting new search-engine projects, come to think of it)
Wouldent they deserve their own article?
On 1/24/07, Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com wrote:
On 24/01/07, Keitei nihthraefn@gmail.com wrote:
On Jan 24, 2007, at 11:31, · Firefoxman wrote:
What is it? I looked it up on WP but it was deleted. The site is blockedhttp://www.arlington.k12.va.us/filter.html?URL=http:// encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/ Main_Page&IP=158.59.199.125&CAT=GPORN&USER=DEFAULTat my school, so I cannot check the site.
Trying to be as NPOV as possible, Encyclopedia Dramatica is meant to be a humor site. It originated from LJ drama (which was a bit of a fiasco for those involved, if I remember correctly)
It originated from LJ drama and became ED after a very short stint on enwp, about one day long :-)
As for knocking them off their host, I don't think Wikipedia ever would be or should be involved in this. If different people want to initiate this, that's their business. Doesn't seem to be appropriate for a Wikipedia mailing list, but that's just my opinion.
Quite. If you want to lead a crusade to 'clean up' the internet, please feel free, but don't do it here unless we're actively involved. (The same applies to starting new search-engine projects, come to think of it)
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
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· Firefoxman wrote:
Wouldent they deserve their own article?
The only NPOV statement I have in response to that is "go read the Arbcom case".
On 1/24/07, . aroquk@juno.com wrote:
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care more about abuse reports.
They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
Their server IPs are: encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226 pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the email addresses to report abuse to are now: abuse@colo4dallas.com, support@colo4dallas.com, abuse@cogentco.com
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
Attempting to set up an organized attack, especially by filing what may arguably false reports, isn't going to help anyone's cause.
In fact, it could leave Wikipedia open to some legal troubles.
Parker
Yes, to echo Parker above, we don't need to get involved with this. Based on this thread we all know how worthless ED is, and it's probably best to ignore them and leave them alone rather than feed them and allow them to continue to troll the internet.
On 1/24/07, Parker Peters parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/24/07, . aroquk@juno.com wrote:
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care more about abuse reports.
They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
Their server IPs are: encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226 pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the email addresses to report abuse to are now: abuse@colo4dallas.com, support@colo4dallas.com, abuse@cogentco.com
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
Attempting to set up an organized attack, especially by filing what may arguably false reports, isn't going to help anyone's cause.
In fact, it could leave Wikipedia open to some legal troubles.
Parker _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 1/24/07, . aroquk@juno.com wrote:
This means the email addresses to report abuse to are now: abuse@colo4dallas.com, support@colo4dallas.com, abuse@cogentco.com
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
Here is a link to colo4dallas.com's AUP
http://colo4dallas.com/aup.asp
Which part of this is E.D. violating? ISP's don't terminate clients for simply receiving a lot of conplaints.
. wrote:
As you know, Encyclopedia Dramatica has attack articles on many Wikipedians. Well, they changed hosts so maybe their new host will care more about abuse reports.
They used to be hosted by DreamHost who was unhelpful about abuse complaints. Dreamhost now only their DNS now.
Their server IPs are: encyclopediadramatica.net 72.249.60.226 pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com 72.249.60.227
A whois lookup on these shows they comes from colo4dallas.com and a traceroute finds cogentco.com as the next closest hop. This means the email addresses to report abuse to are now: abuse@colo4dallas.com, support@colo4dallas.com, abuse@cogentco.com
If we get enough reports in, they may shut down their site.
I definitely don't support this. If they're doing something illegal (libel, etc.), then legal action may be warranted, but trying to strongarm an ISP into taking down a site isn't a good idea.
-Mark
I can't speak so well, for the legal side of things, but this whole "I don't like them, so I'll send takedown notices" attitude bugs me, too. I'm actually fairly surprised that the Wikipedia community, which day-in and day-out is greatly concerned with getting these *same sorts of complaints* from people who want to control our content through legal threats and similar means, would quickly turn around and threaten or plan the same sort of behavior against other websites.
At this point, I would strongly oppose attaching Wikipedia's name to any action of this nature, except in the most dire circumstances. If this is done, let it be done by individuals who represent themselves and their own interests.
I don't like trolls. That's why I block them on the wiki. Past that, I'm less concerned about whether it's the business of the Wikipedia community -- communal antagonism of this nature only encourages them, you know.
Just a few thoughts, -Luna
<AOL>Me too.</AOL>
See also: [[Lone wolf (terrorism]].
And I'm disgusted to see one of our members making this kind of call. You do realize this does more damage to us, because it's an outright call for people to try to disguise their connection to Wikipedia when filing fraudulent claims.
Plus, I thought you were better than that, Luna.
Parker
On 1/24/07, Luna lunasantin@gmail.com wrote:
<snip> At this point, I would strongly oppose attaching Wikipedia's name to any action of this nature, except in the most dire circumstances. If this is done, let it be done by individuals who represent themselves and their own interests. <snip> Just a few thoughts, -Luna _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l