There is once again a proposal to move the Main Page out of mainspace.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#Requested_move
Gary Kirk wrote:
There is once again a proposal to move the Main Page out of mainspace.
in the name of Jimbo, WHY?
I can't possibly see the advantage. It doesn't open up the page name because if you don't put in a redirect lots of links (both internal and external) will die on us. Not to mention, the main page has been with us from the beginning. Moving that entire history will be a strain on the server and it really serves no useful purpose. Is having a fancy portal space really worth that much?
Alternative idea: If it has to get that name, can't we create the portal thingy as a redirect and use that template for alternative names on the main page without actually moving it?
Mgm
On 1/13/07, Dan Collins en.wp.st47@gmail.com wrote:
Gary Kirk wrote:
There is once again a proposal to move the Main Page out of mainspace.
in the name of Jimbo, WHY?
-- GnuPG key ID is 0x84189146 on subkeys.pgp.net
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MacGyverMagic/Mgm schreef:
I can't possibly see the advantage.
As soon as someone makes a movie called "Main Page", the Main Page will have to be moved. It's in article space, so a real article would have priority.
Or maybe our Main Page is notable and encyclopedic in itself -- after all, it has more page views than most web pages -- and if someone writes an article about it, it should be located at [[Main Page]].
"The '''Main Page''' of [[Wikipedia]] is the front page of the encyclopedia. It was located at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page] until 2007, when it was moved to [[Wikipedia Portal Space]] because of reaching the encyclopedic notability threshold{{fact}}."
Eugene
Eugene, that would be a great reason to move it, but as of right now, no such thing has happened. Let's not act on things that might happen, but on things that actually have happened.
Mgm
On 1/13/07, Eugene van der Pijll eugene@vanderpijll.nl wrote:
MacGyverMagic/Mgm schreef:
I can't possibly see the advantage.
As soon as someone makes a movie called "Main Page", the Main Page will have to be moved. It's in article space, so a real article would have priority.
Or maybe our Main Page is notable and encyclopedic in itself -- after all, it has more page views than most web pages -- and if someone writes an article about it, it should be located at [[Main Page]].
"The '''Main Page''' of [[Wikipedia]] is the front page of the encyclopedia. It was located at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page] until 2007, when it was moved to [[Wikipedia Portal Space]] because of reaching the encyclopedic notability threshold{{fact}}."
Eugene
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[[WP:BEANS]] imo.
On 14/01/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
Eugene, that would be a great reason to move it, but as of right now, no such thing has happened. Let's not act on things that might happen, but on things that actually have happened.
Mgm
On 1/13/07, Eugene van der Pijll eugene@vanderpijll.nl wrote:
MacGyverMagic/Mgm schreef:
I can't possibly see the advantage.
As soon as someone makes a movie called "Main Page", the Main Page will have to be moved. It's in article space, so a real article would have priority.
Or maybe our Main Page is notable and encyclopedic in itself -- after all, it has more page views than most web pages -- and if someone writes an article about it, it should be located at [[Main Page]].
"The '''Main Page''' of [[Wikipedia]] is the front page of the encyclopedia. It was located at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page] until 2007, when it was moved to [[Wikipedia Portal Space]] because of reaching the encyclopedic notability threshold{{fact}}."
Eugene
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Someone's got into their head that having it in mainspace is a "violation of Wikipedia policy", and suggests it be moved into the comparatively new Portal namespace, like [[Current events]] was.
On 1/13/07, Dan Collins en.wp.st47@gmail.com wrote:
Gary Kirk wrote:
There is once again a proposal to move the Main Page out of mainspace.
in the name of Jimbo, WHY?
-- GnuPG key ID is 0x84189146 on subkeys.pgp.net
(sorry, I sent that message in response to Dan - didn't see Mgm's message before sending)
On 1/13/07, Gary Kirk gary.kirk@gmail.com wrote:
Someone's got into their head that having it in mainspace is a "violation of Wikipedia policy", and suggests it be moved into the comparatively new Portal namespace, like [[Current events]] was.
On 1/13/07, Dan Collins en.wp.st47@gmail.com wrote:
Gary Kirk wrote:
There is once again a proposal to move the Main Page out of mainspace.
in the name of Jimbo, WHY?
-- GnuPG key ID is 0x84189146 on subkeys.pgp.net
-- Gary Kirk
Of course, must be. It's only logical for the main page to violate policy since day one. </sarcasm>
On 1/13/07, Gary Kirk gary.kirk@gmail.com wrote:
Someone's got into their head that having it in mainspace is a "violation of Wikipedia policy", and suggests it be moved into the comparatively new Portal namespace, like [[Current events]] was.
On 1/13/07, Dan Collins en.wp.st47@gmail.com wrote:
Gary Kirk wrote:
There is once again a proposal to move the Main Page out of mainspace.
in the name of Jimbo, WHY?
-- GnuPG key ID is 0x84189146 on subkeys.pgp.net
-- Gary Kirk
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 1/13/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
Of course, must be. It's only logical for the main page to violate policy since day one.
</sarcasm>
Actually, I'd really like it if it was moved from "Main Page" to "Main page". That capital p annoys the bejesus out me.
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:26:50 +0100, "Oskar Sigvardsson" oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, I'd really like it if it was moved from "Main Page" to "Main page". That capital p annoys the bejesus out me.
[[WP:BOLD]]...
If the servers go tits-up in the next half hour we'll know why I guess.
Guy (JzG)
On 1/13/07, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:26:50 +0100, "Oskar Sigvardsson" oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, I'd really like it if it was moved from "Main Page" to "Main page". That capital p annoys the bejesus out me.
[[WP:BOLD]]...
If the servers go tits-up in the next half hour we'll know why I guess.
Guy (JzG)
I don't know what crazy world of fairies and pixel-dust you live in, but where I come from not every user is an admin.
(also, I'm not insane =)
On 1/14/07, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/13/07, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:26:50 +0100, "Oskar Sigvardsson" oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, I'd really like it if it was moved from "Main Page" to "Main page". That capital p annoys the bejesus out me.
If you move from "Main Page" to "Main page", that's when you get problems with website entry words like "Main page" redirecting to "index.html" or "homepage". The capitalization ensures it doesn't get mixed up with actual articles.
Mgm
On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 02:34:15 +0100, "Oskar Sigvardsson" oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
I don't know what crazy world of fairies and pixel-dust you live in, but where I come from not every user is an admin.
[[WP:RFA]], second on your left down the corridor. Next, please :-)
Guy (JzG)
Actually, it used to be called the HomePage in the good old days. http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/ I'd prefer the name Frontpage over Main Page or HomePage, though. --Ruud
MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
Of course, must be. It's only logical for the main page to violate policy since day one.
</sarcasm>
On 1/13/07, Gary Kirk gary.kirk@gmail.com wrote:
Someone's got into their head that having it in mainspace is a "violation of Wikipedia policy", and suggests it be moved into the comparatively new Portal namespace, like [[Current events]] was.
On 1/13/07, Dan Collins en.wp.st47@gmail.com wrote:
Gary Kirk wrote:
There is once again a proposal to move the Main Page out of mainspace.
in the name of Jimbo, WHY?
-- GnuPG key ID is 0x84189146 on subkeys.pgp.net
-- Gary Kirk
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Ruud Koot schreef:
Actually, it used to be called the HomePage in the good old days. http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/ I'd prefer the name Frontpage over Main Page or HomePage, though. --Ruud
---------------------- :''This is the Wikipedia Frontpage. For the Microsoft web site authoring software, see [[Microsoft FrontPage]].''
Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. 1,580,773 articles in English
... ----------------------
Maybe not.
Eugene
On 1/14/07, Gary Kirk gary.kirk@gmail.com wrote:
Someone's got into their head that having it in mainspace is a "violation of Wikipedia policy", and suggests it be moved into the comparatively new Portal namespace, like [[Current events]] was.
*Moving* the main page may be problematic, but it's pretty clear that it shouldn't be in main article space, as it's not an article about anything. If for some reason we didn't have one, and a proposal was put forward today, it would almost certainly be put in either Wikipedia: or Portal: space. Thus, not so much a "violation of Wikipedia policy", as being inconsistent with existing naming conventions and namespace conventions.
Steve
I don't know where I read it, but I think I saw somewhere that in fact an exception was made for the main page BECAUSE moving it would be so intrusive for its history and all the links. If you move it, it just creates another problem with lots of deadlinks.
What advantage can be had in moving it instead of following a rule for which exceptions can be made?
Mgm
On 1/14/07, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/14/07, Gary Kirk gary.kirk@gmail.com wrote:
Someone's got into their head that having it in mainspace is a "violation of Wikipedia policy", and suggests it be moved into the comparatively new Portal namespace, like [[Current events]] was.
*Moving* the main page may be problematic, but it's pretty clear that it shouldn't be in main article space, as it's not an article about anything. If for some reason we didn't have one, and a proposal was put forward today, it would almost certainly be put in either Wikipedia: or Portal: space. Thus, not so much a "violation of Wikipedia policy", as being inconsistent with existing naming conventions and namespace conventions.
Steve
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On 1/14/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
I don't know where I read it, but I think I saw somewhere that in fact an exception was made for the main page BECAUSE moving it would be so intrusive for its history and all the links. If you move it, it just creates another problem with lots of deadlinks.
What advantage can be had in moving it instead of following a rule for which exceptions can be made?
Mgm
There are none really. Not even consitency, because there is another exception that NO one wants moved out of the main name-space, namely the shortcut-redirects (like [[WP:RFA]], [[WP:AFD]], etc.) If we're going to be completely anal about the rules, shouldn't those go aswell? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to move the main page.
On 1/14/07, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
There are none really. Not even consitency, because there is another exception that NO one wants moved out of the main name-space, namely the shortcut-redirects (like [[WP:RFA]], [[WP:AFD]], etc.) If we're going to be completely anal about the rules, shouldn't those go aswell? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to move the main page.
Well, no, there are clearly lots of good reasons to main page should not be in main article space. Unfortunately there are also lots of reasons why moving it is a bad reason. It's always sort of a bad sign when the reasons for/against doing something are predominantly based on the cost of doing it, not on the desirability of the end result.
Anyway, reasons Main Page should not be in article space: - It's not an article - It's a portal - If ever there is a thing called Main Page that needs to be described, things are going to get awkward
Reasons Main Page should be in article space: - It's there now and it's a major hassle to change it.
The exceptions like WP:RFA etc have a good reason for being in article space: their existence would be pointless if they weren't.
Steve
You make it sound like there are more reasons it should be moved, when really, your first two points are the same.
Mgm
On 1/14/07, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/14/07, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
There are none really. Not even consitency, because there is another exception that NO one wants moved out of the main name-space, namely the shortcut-redirects (like [[WP:RFA]], [[WP:AFD]], etc.) If we're going to be completely anal about the rules, shouldn't those go aswell? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to move the main page.
Well, no, there are clearly lots of good reasons to main page should not be in main article space. Unfortunately there are also lots of reasons why moving it is a bad reason. It's always sort of a bad sign when the reasons for/against doing something are predominantly based on the cost of doing it, not on the desirability of the end result.
Anyway, reasons Main Page should not be in article space:
- It's not an article
- It's a portal
- If ever there is a thing called Main Page that needs to be
described, things are going to get awkward
Reasons Main Page should be in article space:
- It's there now and it's a major hassle to change it.
The exceptions like WP:RFA etc have a good reason for being in article space: their existence would be pointless if they weren't.
Steve
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I doubt there's ever going to be something called Main page, but if there is, shouldn't we handle that when it happens rather than trying to solve a problem (the main page blocking a possible article) that doesn't exist yet?
Mgm
On 1/15/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
You make it sound like there are more reasons it should be moved, when really, your first two points are the same.
Heh, just like how consensus on Wikipedia isn't about counting votes, counting arguments is pretty pointless. I'm repeating myself, but it boils down to that there is no good reason for Main Page to be in main article space other than the difficulty of actually moving it. So the number of arguments for it being in the wrong space is sort of irrelevant, as there are no counter arguments.
As to whether there would ever be anything called Main Page...if we *didn't* have that as the title of our top-level portal, we would probably redirect Main Page and Main page to homepage or index.html or something.
Steve
Argh! Saying there are no counter arguments don't make them invalid. The difficulty of actually moving it should be reason enough. There's no advantage to moving the main page except to fit the perceived requirement to follow some rule that has a specific exception for the main page.
Mgm
On 1/14/07, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/15/07, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
You make it sound like there are more reasons it should be moved, when really, your first two points are the same.
Heh, just like how consensus on Wikipedia isn't about counting votes, counting arguments is pretty pointless. I'm repeating myself, but it boils down to that there is no good reason for Main Page to be in main article space other than the difficulty of actually moving it. So the number of arguments for it being in the wrong space is sort of irrelevant, as there are no counter arguments.
As to whether there would ever be anything called Main Page...if we *didn't* have that as the title of our top-level portal, we would probably redirect Main Page and Main page to homepage or index.html or something.
Steve
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On 1/14/07, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
There are none really. Not even consitency, because there is another exception that NO one wants moved out of the main name-space, namely the shortcut-redirects (like [[WP:RFA]], [[WP:AFD]], etc.) If we're going to be completely anal about the rules, shouldn't those go aswell?
Than one would be fairly trivial to fix by adding a read WP namespace.