Or instead, we could give the trolls what they actually deserve and kick them off the list, that way we don't have the list overwhelmed with troll posts that we have to pick through to get to the actual discussions here. Turning the other cheek only goes so far.
Dan Grey dangrey at gmail.com:
Why don't people just give trolls what they deserve?
Do us all a favour, and when people post here only looking for trouble, give them what they deserve - the silent treatment.
Dan
On 02/07/05, Rob <gamaliel8 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Calling someone a "fascist hag" is not a crime
either,
but it is obnoxious namecalling that should not
belong
on this list. We shouldn't tolerate such trollish behavior in the name of "dissent".
Geoffrey Bell truetheatertype at gmail.com:
Wait wait wait...I haven't been watching this list like a hawk, and maybe we're talking about two different people, but I
don't
see any trolls, only a dissenter. And dissent is not a crime, of course.
On 7/1/05, Rob <gamaliel8 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Can we please remove the anonymous troll from this
list?
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Today's Topics:
- Re: SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power (David
Gerard) 2. Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low EQs (Fred Bauder) 3. Live 8 and the In the news box (Dan Grey) 4. Re: Personal attacks and low EQs (Fred Bauder) 5. Re: SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power (Sean Barrett) 6. Re: Personal attacks and low EQs (Jerome Jamnicky) 7. Re: Personal attacks and low EQs (Timwi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 01:37:06 +1000 From: fun@thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard) Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Message-ID: 20050702153706.GH7309@thingy.apana.org.au Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have a dream ... of a wikien-l that isn't the [[Thomas Crapper]] Memorial Sewer for en:. One that has something vaguely to do with writing an encyclopedia.
New members of the list now start moderated. This is a major PITA for your power-crazed fascist list admins (to be addressed henceforth as Dear Leader), but that's the problem with persistent trolling.
- d.
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:46:52 -0600 From: Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net Subject: Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low EQs To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Message-ID: 79149CF7-ADE9-4123-802E-EAB4A51A1854@ctelco.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Begin forwarded message:
From: Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net Date: July 2, 2005 9:45:36 AM MDT To: "Nathan J. Yoder" njyoder@energon.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Personal attacks and low
EQs
On Jul 2, 2005, at 8:32 AM, Nathan J. Yoder wrote:
"You are a hypocrite" is a personal attack. "You
seem to apply a
lenient standard to yourself and a strict
standard to others" is a
description of behavior, particularly if you
cite examples.
Those mean the exact same thing! You just gave
the definition of a
hypocrite. You're making a meaningless
distinction here and I
seriously doubt you follow your own logic. Are
you saying you've
never called someone a troll or accused them of
using sock puppets?
Can you honestly say that you've been using a
very long-winded,
politically correct version of a troll
accusation?
And I do give examples, but you seem to keep
ignoring that repeatedly
because it suits you to ignore it.
You REALLY do not have the authority to make an
arbitrary distinction
like that as it's outlined in *zero* policies.
What it says, at
[[Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Don.27t_do_it]]
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Don.
27t_do_it) is "Comment on content, not on the
contributor." Let's
suppose you are trying to add content and someone
is reverting it
on the basis that it is "personal research" "POV"
"unsourced" or
whatever. You look at their edits and find they
are doing the same
thing or a number of other things equally bad and
are vigorously
defending their actions behind a smokescreen of
righteousness. This
is all publicly visible on Wikipedia and can be
demonstrated by
diffs. Going to a person's talk page or the talk
page of an article
and discussing this double standard is not a
personal attack. A
bald statement that someone is a "hypocrite" is.
I have sinned and doubtless will sin again;
however, I think I'm
doing better; partly because looking at all the
ways people get it
wrong and serving as a spokesman for Wikipedia
policies does get me
to thinking about my own behavior. When you find
yourself about to
do something you have banned someone for you can
sometimes pay
enough attention that you don't do it.
As to authority, doubtless Wikipedia policies can
be expressed more
clearly, doubtless decisions of the Arbitration
Committee could be
both plainer and more comprehensive, but Jimbo and
through him the
Arbitration Committee do have authority to make
reasonable
decisions. Please keep in mind that you are only
being limited in
the range of voluntary work you chose to do on a
particular website.
This politically correct business is worth a
comment. If I succeed
in following Wikipedia policy or correctly
restating it I am in
some sense "correct" in that I have followed the
"party line." That
is what I am supposed to do. I am not in a state
of sin because I
describe in detail behavior which could be
summarized as an
invidious characterization.
Fred
Message: 3 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:48:58 +0100 From: Dan Grey dangrey@gmail.com Subject: [WikiEN-l] Live 8 and the In the news box To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: cfe1dfe1050702084871d548ce@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It would be nice if any admins reading this could update the In the news box:
=== message truncated ===
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On 7/3/05, Rob gamaliel8@yahoo.com wrote:
Or instead, we could give the trolls what they actually deserve and kick them off the list, that way we don't have the list overwhelmed with troll posts that we have to pick through to get to the actual discussions here. Turning the other cheek only goes so far.
Hmmm. Six lines of post and a couple of a hundred of quoted material. Perhaps you should examine the log in your own eye, brother, before pointing out the speck in another's!