On 9/5/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
David, what is a nuisance, a pain, or rubbish to you, may not be to me.
on 9/5/07 3:23 PM, Michael Noda at michael.noda@gmail.com wrote:
While this is true, I think this thread has shown pretty clearly that you are a fairly far outlier in terms of your social expectations. Not that this is a bad thing, but it would be unwise to expect the list to change to meet those expectations, at least while the general consensus remains as it is.
If your proposals are accepted, and the mailing list becomes disagreeable to the majority of its active users (as they have indicated it would), to the point that they leave and go elsewhere, *what has been gained?* This sort of thinking, elevating pragmatics over principle in all but a few cases, has been enshrined in the project since the beginning, in the form of [[Wikipedia:Ignore all rules]], and that spirit continues to inform the vast majority (one hopes!) of the community.
On 9/6/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
Michael,
I receive many, many private emails from Members of this List Community every day. The great majority of these persons are NOT banned or moderated Members; but who fear ending up that way if they voice their opinions.
That is what drives me.
on 9/5/07 7:29 PM, John Lee at johnleemk@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>
Dialogue is crucial; I personally would like to engage those who fear they will be moderated, because I cannot think of a reason they would fear that
That reason is the climate and culture that has been created on the List.
unless they actually intend to contribute nothing more than the same things as those presently on moderation - most of whom are on it for good reason.
And this is the type of cynicism that contributes to that culture.
I would also add that speaking in vague abstract generalities is not very helpful or conducive to a resolution of this problem;
These were private communications; that's all you're going to get from me.
we need to know just whats, whys, etc. of these fears.
You will have to get these from them; and as long as the culture remains as it is, I doubt very much that you will.
Feel free to disagree with me all you like, but I find we're very tolerant of a lot of crap spewed onto the list - even those on moderation often have their messages approved.
Once again, you are illuminating the problem, John. You are subjectively deciding for us all, what is "crap" and what is not. Don't you get it!?
Marc