The point of my comment is that if I have the time to do it, the advice is specific to the particular article. Not suggesting looking for sources in general, but suggesting where they might be found, keeping in mind the probable availability to the user. Not saying avoid promotional phrases like this standard list, but just which particular phrases in that particular article look promotional.
That said, I do have a list of boilerplate standard advice, and I will post it. Let me give now the one I use the most often:
"See chapter 6 of [http://howwikipediaworks.com/ the free online version] of ''How Wikipedia Works'' by Phoebe Ayers, Charles Matthews, and Ben Yates (also available in [http://nostarch.com/howwikiworks.htm print])
I once thought of doing a similar book myself, but i quickly saw I could not do better.
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Carcharoth carcharothwp@googlemail.com wrote:
Have you written that essay with this sort of advice in it yet? :-)
Carcharoth
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 2:47 AM, David Goodman dgoodmanny@gmail.com wrote:
The important part of salvage work is not keeping the articles, but keeping the new contributors. This is done not just by refraining from deleting their articles, but helping the new editors to improve them.
What encourages me to patrol is when I get a talk page comment after I've deleted (or drastically reworked) an article: "I see where I did it wrong--now I know what to do better." or "Many people left notices but you gave me specific advice. Maybe I'll stay here after all." The reason for saving rather than deleting, not matter the extra work it takes, is that a greater proportion of the people will keep on trying. This applies not only to immature editors, but also to people who wander in from the commercial or academic world where expectations are different.
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
Carcharoth wrote:
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Carcharoth carcharothwp@googlemail.com wrote:
<snip>
I created a "journal" article in the end. Not part of this experiment, but my point below (which may have got lost), is valid, I think:
To try and bring this post back on-topic, I suppose my point is that stub articles on obscure topics would probably fare even worse if a new editor submitted them. Is that a valid point? That obscure topics need experienced Wikipedians to start the articles going, as opposed to new editors trying to do the same?
Anyone agree that the high-hanging fruit are more likely to get new editors bitten?
If that's a way of saying that experience is helpful in knowing what makes for a "good stub", I think that's uncontestable. If it's a way of saying that the patrolling that goes on is basically a filter by notability of topic first, and excuse for deletion afterwards, then that might be factually accurate, if something that also has its darker side (judging the notability of a topic by what is written in a stub, or even on the basis of quick googling, is obviously flawed). If it's an encouragement to post more stubs that are clearly needed to develop the site, then I'm in complete agreement, and would add that we need more infrastructure directed towards "missing articles" and at least turning the redlinks blue with adequate stubs. (To answer part of what David Goodman has been arguing consistently, adding new articles prompted by the needs of the site, rather than spending a corresponding amount of time on salvage work, seems to me a defensible priority on content grounds. Which is not the whole point, though.)
Charles
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l