On 28 Nov 2008, at 00:27, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
On 27 Nov 2008, at 12:05, David Gerard wrote:
2008/11/27 Michael Everson everson@evertype.com:
We haven't proposed that. We proposed "Ireland (state)".
That has a slight smell of neologism - is the term used anywhere outside Wikipedia?
It is no different from "Georgia (country)"
That's because the nationals of a few small countries perceive a "state" to be a political subdivision.
I don't understand. "Georgia (country)" and "Georgia (state)" would both = Sakartvelo and both contrast with "Georgia (U.S. State)". And the U.S. States are sovereign in a sense (California is more sovereign than County Mayo in Ireland is), though they also are part of a federal structure which is the top-level subdivision in terms of UN recognition.
At least "Republic of Ireland" is something it's called in an official document on the state's formation.
Incorrect. The Constitution of Ireland (1937) specifies that "Ireland" is the name of the state. The Republic of Ireland Act (1948) specifies that "Republic of Ireland" is a "description" of the state.
Does the 1937 Constitution actually use the word "state"?
Yes. Clause 2 is "the State" and section 4 states "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."
Would [[Ireland (Republic)]] be sufficient to emphasize that the term "republic" is merely descriptive.
I don't believe it would be preferable. to changee [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (republic)]] or to [[Ireland (Republic)]] -- I think you'd get push-back on that. I could ask, but just at the moment that might be poking the hornet's nest.
Once again, the best compromise proposal:
Ireland --> disambiguation page Ireland (island) --> about the island, comparable to the "Great Britain" article Ireland (state) --> about the state.
While I have no difficulty with [[Ireland (state)]]. I think that reducing [[Ireland]] to a disambiguation page diminishes the term.
"Diminish"? I don't see how. The word "Ireland" is well and truly ambiguous. It *could* point to the modern state, but that pisses a lot of Northern Ireland editors off. Hence the compromise.
There is nothing in what your proposal that would adequately deal with pre-1922 Ireland.
You mean, pre-1922 Ireland as a political unit? [[Irish_Free_State]] deals with Ireland 1922-1937; The proposed [[Ireland (state)]] deals with the modern country. We've got [[Irish_states_since_1171]]. I don't see the problem. It's a complex situation. With the article name changes as proposed I think we'd have a good shot at sorting out the articles though.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com