John asked, somewhat plaintively, "Does terrorism only occur if it's NOT directed against Americans or Israelis?"
This is a good question, and we should develop an article to answer this question. As a start, let's consider what the definition of terrorism is, or list multiple definition.
"Violence directed against civilians"
Ah, but what about the bombings of Coventry or Dresden?
"Not an act of a state"
Ah, but what about state-supported terrorism?
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"
Hmm. Maybe the issue is "injustice".
That is, X will label a given act of violence against civilians "terrorist" if he considers it unjust. Like, how dare those bastards bulldoze this Arab man's house?
Meanwhile, Y might say that the same act is not terrorist, because he does NOT consider it unjust. Like, we were destroying tunnels used to smuggle weapons, etc.
Same logic applies to blowing up a bus or pizzeria. My side calls it an act of war, a blow against oppression (i.e., justifiable). Your side calls it cowardly, unjust, etc.
It all boils down to the point of view of the person classifying the act. So let's identify the POV and its advocate. *yawn* case closed. Not too hard, eh?
Ed Poor, aka Uncle Ed
-----Original Message----- From: John C. Penta [mailto:pentaj2@UofS.edu] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:07 PM To: English Wikipedia Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Sep 11
----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net Date: Friday, January 16, 2004 5:13 am Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Sep 11
Ray Saintonge wrote:
Daniel Mayer wrote:
by definition governments cannot commit terrorism.
We are far from unanimity about that element in the definition.
Granted this part of the definition is disputed (I would not characterize the dispute the way you do - IMO it is not as disputed as you let on), but the intent to cause terror in a civilian population is not. Nor is the fact that few people in the English-speaking world call the 9/11 attacks terrorist acts (what English speakers say is relevant to naming conventions).
OK, this makes me sick.
If 9/11 wasn't terrorism, WHAT IS? Does terrorism only occur if it's NOT directed against Americans or Israelis?
What the hell is wrong with you people?
Terrorism by government is no less atrocious. Destroying the homes of innocent Palestinians is done with the intent of terrorizing them even when the troops are careful to make sure that there is no-one in the house when it is blown-up.
This is a practice I find abhorrent but I would not call it terrorism (esp when it directed at people who somehow aided suicide bombers or were the family of the suicide bombers - terrorism is directed toward a much larger population which causes general fear for *everybody* in that population).
<growls> Must we bring the Palestinians into EVERYTHING?
Of course, a country that depends on the application of massive force to achieve victory finds it difficult to comprehend why
small
groups of people would ever want to continue to use their meagre weapons to secure their freedom.. Perhaps the way to prevent them from engaging in terrorist acts would be to give them something to lose.
No argument from me here. The U.S. could save billions on military spending and terrorism security if they invested in ways to stomp-out the root causes of terrorism - poverty and its close cousin ignorance.
Somehow I doubt a middle-class twenty-something, or a middle-class mom-turned-suicide-bomber, is really hit by poverty or ignorance.
Try another one.
Ahh! then our common name naming convention depends on who is taking the "terrorist" action.
No - it depends on how English speakers use the English language.
Precisely.
Now, pardon me while I vomit at this unique expression of human foolishness.
John
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