Timwi wrote:
OMG, not again.
You know, I've always found this AD vs. CE debate extremely stupid. Like, as if renaming "AD" to "CE" would immediately, suddenly and magically remove all connections with any religion! Guys, it's still the number of years after Jesus' birth, whether you like it or not.
I have a few, brief comments to make concerning the list-serve discussion. First, I appreciate Skyrings comments (and several others), very much. I disagree with Stephen Bain on one point: yes, BC and AD should be used when appropriate. But I do not think that when appropriate means Christianity related articles. Christianity related articles, like Jewish related articles, Muslim related articles, Marxism related articles, Fascism related articles must all be written from an NPOV. BUT I recognize that many articles will include within them passages that describe or present a Christian point of view. I believe that it is in such sections that BC and AD are not only appropriate, but must be used for the sake of accuracy.
But I have to respond to Timwis message at length. His very statements actually exemplify the reason I have made this proposal. To be clear, although I certainly do believe in the specifics of the proposal, my main motivation was concern over peoples understanding of our NPOV policy. I wanted to open up a debate about NPOV, and raise peoples consciousness about NPOV. As far as I am concerned, what Timwi wrote proves that s/he either does not understand, or does not accept, our NPOV policy, and by itself justifies my proposal.
The fact is, if I thought everyone understood and was committed to our NPOV policy, I would not have made this proposal NPOV should be a general policy people can use to make decisions on an ad hoc basis. However, much of the opposition to this proposal (and remember, the big dispute on the Talk: Jesus page started with a change by JimWae) convinces me that many people do not understand or care about NPOV. I realize you may think my understanding of NPOV is eccentric. But here is what convinces me: many people oppose the proposal because AD/BC doesn't bother them. Okay, they have a right not to be bothered by AD/BC. But to make that a reason for not using another term is and I am certain I am correct in this fundamentally incompatible with our NPOV policy. The basis of our NPOV policy is that not everyone feels the same way. This necessarily means that it doesn't matter that you are not bothered by something; what matters is that someone else is. I think this is the very essence of NPOV, to recognize that one's own feelings are not shared by others and thus cannot be the basis for making decisions concerning NPOV! Yet in many, if not most of the arguments in favor of keeping BC/AD, this is the ultimate reason people give. So I have very serious doubts about the commitment to NPOV. Jimbo says it is an unconditional policy, and everyone pays it lip-service. You know what? I think most people follow the policy because most of the time it is easy to follow the policy. I think here we have stumbled upon a situation where many people truly find it hard to follow the policy, because they cannot understand why someone would object to BC/AD as POV. But this is precisely the test: to accept that your position is POV even when you cannot understand why others do not share it. If someone cannot make that leap, then our NPOV policy is in jeopardy. That is why I make this proposal: to bolster our NPOV policy in a situation where many people find it hard to follow the NPOV policy.
By the way, I dont want to descend into an argument over language or logic. I am NOT saying that all opposition to my proposal is motivated by a disregard for out NPOV people. In fact, many people who oppose my proposal share my commitment to NPOV, for which I am grateful. I do not write this to convince anyone to support my proposal. I write this to propel my real purpose, which is to spark a frank discussion about our NPOV policy.
Steve
Steven L. Rubenstein Associate Professor Department of Sociology and Anthropology Bentley Annex Ohio University Athens, Ohio 45701