On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 2:28 PM, David Goodman dggenwp@gmail.com wrote:
There is a fundamental difference between our inefficient and sometimes unsuccessful attempts to do things right, and their deliberate attempts to do things wrong.
Yes, but we must not forget that PR people are not the only people who use Wikipedia to do things wrong. By operating the completely open system we do, we enable *anyone* to do wrong, be they PR or staff working for a company, or a company's detractors.
The community is responsible for managing Wikipedia. And whether Wikipedia is easy or difficult to abuse is the community's responsibility.
Andreas
And there is also a difference, though a smaller one, between an individual's misguided attempt to fix what he perceives as injustice towards themselves, and a commercial concern's deliberate attempt to violate or evade for money what they must know are our rules . Nobody can perceive whitewashing as proper, though they may think it something they can get away with.
And we also need to realize that the more we stop improper efforts, the more people trying to make them will complain. Avoiding complaints is not our measure of success; avoiding justified complaints is.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
On 12 November 2012 16:30, Steve Summit scs@eskimo.com wrote:
Ken Arromdee wrote:
When they say that Wikipedia's proces for fixing articles is "opaque, time-consuming and cumbersome", they are *correct*.
Well, yeah, but. Right (sorta) conclusion, wrong reason.
It can always be improved, but I don't think our "process" for fixing articles is *that* bad. And, in any case, it wasn't at all so cumbersome that it kept Finsbury from whitewashing the article!
The real point, surely, is whether the word "needlessly" can be shoehorned in front of "cumbersome".
Charles
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