--- Toby Bartels toby+wikipedia@math.ucr.edu wrote:
Anthere wrote:
what does that mean "ilk" ?
Short answer: It means "type".
Long answer: That's a good question.
The OED says that every usage of "ilk" is either obsolete, Scottish, or erroneous (exactly 1). The usage that I know, and that Zoe was using, is the one labelled "erroneous" by the OED: "that ilk: That family, class, set, or 'lot'. Also, by further extension, = kind, sort." Apparently, Zoe's usage of "their" instead of "that" is too erroneous even to merit inclusion. (Which is not a criticism of Zoe, but of the OED.)
Many American dictionaries don't mention this meaning at all, while others give it as the only meaning; "Type or kind" says one; "a kind of person", says another. Among American dictionaries, only Merriam-Webster seems to know about all 3 kinds of usage (still only the OED calls the 3rd "erroneous").
None of these dictionaries mention what I think is most important for understanding Zoe's comment -- it's *derogatory*. Being of a certain ilk is to be a *bad* kind of thing.
I can't find any online English -> French translation dictionary that's ever heard of the word.
-- Toby
I found it in a french english dictionary. It was translated by "type" (type) or "genre" (kind) with a strong "pejorative" meaning.
But "genre" ou "type" for us, does not carry the "really bad" .
I think the nearest proper translation for us would be "clique", such as when we say "Bush et sa clique", expression which carry some "bad". (but possibly english and french do not give the same meaning to the word clique).
I looked in my American Heritage dictionnary, and found the ancient meaning refered to "people of the same place, some territories, or names", mostly landowners. That sounds very much like the scottish "clan" to me.
All right. That is an expression I like. Thanks alot Zoe
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