Apology and clarification much appreciated. This is at the heart of the issue, I think - many men are intimidating without realizing they are doing so. They even "turn the tables" in their heads - "would I be intimidated if someone did that?" decide the answer is no, its not intimidating - yet that does not help, it is not germane. Because they are not a women wondering if its intimidating.
-kc-
The Cunctator wrote:
I'm sorry you think I was being intimidating. My goal is certainly not to shame those who participate in trying to reduce bias into no longer doing so.
On 12/6/06, Puppy puppy@killerchihuahua.com wrote:
I found his statements well considered and well written. I did not read it that he was chastising anyone who had not, indeed, demonstrated the very bias and intimidation which has led to this discussion. The only "tone" I saw was not turning a blind eye to the hostile actions of others - and this, more than anything else, can help to shame those who participate in such activities into no longer doing so - and the problem goes away - which is, after all, the ultimate goal is it not?
-kc-
Kat Walsh wrote:
On 12/6/06, Phil Sandifer Snowspinner@gmail.com wrote:
Allow me to briefly put my gender privilege to good use
I wish that you had. Instead, some of your antagonism and rhetoric were only pouring gasoline on the discussion, and your characterization of the positions taken by those you've singled out seems at best mistaken. Casting those you see as your opponents in an unfairly negative light damages your own side and your own credibility.
The question of whether a single-sex list is 1) needed and 2) appropriate for Wikimedia to host is a valid one. For discussion by everyone. Its existence does *not* affect only the women; it affects the whole community. (Those women who would at the present time like to discuss the issue in a more private forum can do so -- and have done so.) So I would like to hear discussion from everyone it affects, including you -- but if you're not going to raise the tone of that open discussion, don't join it. Which applies to everyone, including several others in the many spawned threads, but particularly those who would otherwise claim to value respectful discourse and consideration of others' needs.
-Kat
-- "I am not a pretty girl / that is not what I do / I ain't no damsel in distress / and I don't need to be rescued / so put me down punk" - Ani DiFranco, "Not A Pretty Girl" _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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