From: Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com Reply-To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Distasteful names - CrucifiedChrist Date: 27 Jan 2003 23:48:38 -0800
On lun, 2003-01-27 at 22:47, Jonathan Walther wrote:
On Mon, Jan 27, 2003 at 10:37:11PM -0800, Brion Vibber wrote:
CG used a number of login names from the same IP, including this one. All things considered, I'd say it's a huge improvement.
Blasphemy is as offensive as lewdness. He is still trying to deliberately provoke and offend people; hardly what I would consider a "collegial spirit of mutual respect".
The problem with these names is the disruption caused by other Wikipedians taking offense at them.
"Cumguzzler" received acrid complaints within hours and generated pages of screed *entirely from other people debating its lack of merits* within a couple days of its first appearence, while "CrucifiedChrist" has been used for almost two weeks *without a peep* from anyone until today.
In my book, that's a huge improvement. Now please stop feeding the trolls; we've got an encyclopedia to work on.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) << signature.asc >>
Actually, Brian, 'CrucifiedChrist' has caused offence; I received five private emails about it so far (as well as the Wiki Mail stuff) after I mentioned to someone that I thought the term unacceptable.
However people feel 'embarrassed' complaining publicly about it because taking offence at religious references might make them seem like far right religious nutters. But the people who complained aren't fanatical religious folk; two described themselves as non-religious, one a lapsed Roman Catholic. It says something about public attitudes to religion (and the damage done to religion by the religious right) that they felt uncomfortable about complaining publicly and ended up sending me a message saying 'will you say something?'
Personally, as another non-religious person, I think CrucifiedChrist is FAR MORE OFFENSIVE than Cumguzzler. The latter is merely a childish wordplay on sex. CrucifiedChrist is a direct, deliberate mocking of the religious beliefs of millions of web users and large numbers of people using Wiki. I have been trying to get permission to use a set of pictures for Wiki, but was turned down. One of the reasons was that the person who has ownership of the pictures logged on to Wiki, saw references to CrucifiedChrist and took offence, arguing that if that is the standard of contributions and contributors made to Wiki, Wiki obviously isn't a serious attempt at an encyclopedia and he was withdrawing permission which he up to then was on the brink of giving. (And so we lost a set of photographs of world heads of state and prime ministers.)
So this is not a trivial argument, it is about the respect Wiki shows to ALL its contributors and ALL its users. Would it be seen as equally trivial or a 'huge improvement' if Cumguzzler had changed his username to a term that mocked jewish beliefs, agnostic beliefs, feminist beliefs, or that attacked the culure and values of African-Americans, Hispanics, etc? NPOV should mean equal respect for all. That includes christians. Either EVERY name, no matter what the offence caused, is acceptable, or we draw a line and few serious websites would turn a blind eye to a contributor who deliberately set out to mock the beliefs of many fellow users. So again, I want to find out what action Wiki proposes to take about a user who in their username mocks the central tenet of beliefs of many people on Wiki. His action remains unacceptable and needs to be dealt with.
JT
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