From: "Daniel P. B. Smith" dpbsmith@verizon.net
On Jul 23, 2005, at 6:21 PM, wikien-l-request@Wikipedia.org wrote:
Impressive responses. One point: OR is often used as a an excuse to squash certain debated points, without allowing them to devlop (including citing sources). A silly example might be something like "go find some source for your notion that the world is round, and come back when you do so." Such source can then be debated for a while.
I, and everyone else, frequently insert stuff that is "well known" without citing sources. "Beethoven is widely regarded as one of the greatest of composers..." "f = m * a"...
However, whenever a statement, however obvious, is seriously challenged, I take it seriously.
IF something is TRULY well known, it is usually EASY to find a source. When someone says cite a source, I just find one and cite it . And the article is the better for it.
Exactly so. People who claim that NOR is used to quash certain obvious facts that are so well-known that they don't need to be cited. However, it is generally easy to find citations for obvious facts. Often the search and citation will help refine the information provided so that it is even more accurate. Sometimes it will turn out that this "obvious fact" is merely one POV, and further study will reveal opposing viewpoints, thus contributing to NPOV. And if the obvious fact can't be found at all, then it's usually a classic case of Original Research masquerading as "obvious fact".
"The earth is approximately an oblate spheroid (a sphere flattened at the poles.... For many navigational purposes the earth is assumed to be a sphere, without intolerable error."
And now the article is even better, because "round" can describe a number of shapes, so "sphere" is more accurate.
Once I've cited the source, I can replace the sentence in the article that says "the world is round" with the sentence "The U. S. Naval Oceanographic Office states that for many navigational purposes the earth is assumed to be a sphere, without intolerable error." Problem solved.
A more lengthy search will usually reveal a number of different sources corroborating this fact; at that point one can simply state "the earth is a sphere", with a footnote listing the multiple sources confirming that.
Jay.