I am going to have to agree with the doll people about the current state of wiki... in fact when I have made my three months and 1000 edits and I become an admin, I will be an admin for the little people... why bother with all of the political crap... if it seems like someone is abusing their power, I will do everything in my power to stop it all the while giving the little people like the doll specialists a fair shake.
-----Original Message----- From: wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of wikien-l-request@Wikipedia.org Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:14 AM To: wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 100
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? (Rob Smith) 2. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? (David Gerard) 3. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? (David Gerard) 4. IP Blocks (Jason Gazeley) 5. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? (Arkady Rose) 6. Re: Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? (Rob Smith) 7. static html dump script for wikipedia (Mikko Virtaperko) 8. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? (Snowspinner) 9. Re: IP Blocks (David Gerard) 10. Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? (geni) 11. Re: Fwd: 6 Free Offers - Clearance - Extended until 31st January (David Gerard)
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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:28:59 -0700 From: Rob Smith nobs03@gmail.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to bring back people who don't want to bother? To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: 52a8cf060601110728l1529e852s5e8b09de63d807e4@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Take from a user victimized by the concerted efforts of sockpuppet trolls given licence to run rampant throughout Wikipedia: Reputation is everything.
Nobs01
On 1/11/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
" that's part of our public image now."
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Message: 2 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:43:45 +0000 From: David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com Cc: Arkady Rose arkady.rose@gmail.com Message-ID: fbad4e140601110743j19081ae9v6d19a37bb37c4314@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Justin Cormack wrote:
There are other reasons to create non wikipedia wikis too.
Yes, but in this case it's essentially the same sort of thing as a specialist area in Wikipedia - they're specifically not wanting to bother because AFD is *officially* an ignorantocracy now.
Encourage them to use a compatible license, and encourage them to use commons for media.
At least the first, certainly!
Whats the field?
Doll collectors, as I said. Significant hobby economically, these things go for hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars ... see http://www.denofangels.com/ and [[Super Dollfie]] (one of the most popular examples).
You can argue that Wikipedia can live without them. And of course it can. But having a (deserved IMO) reputation for stupidity making people from specialist fields not even want to bother with Wikipedia is surely NOT a good thing for us. At all.
- d.
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Message: 3 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:48:28 +0000 From: David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: fbad4e140601110748wae3f3d5gc72d1e6ef6b42aed@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Nobs01 wrote:
Take from a user victimized by the concerted efforts of sockpuppet trolls given licence to run rampant throughout Wikipedia: Reputation is everything.
You were banned for personal attacks and placed on probation after that for disruption:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Nobs01_and_o...
Oddly enough, cases like yours are not what I was talking about.
- d.
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Message: 4 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:01:36 +0000 From: "Jason Gazeley" burwellian@hotmail.co.uk Subject: [WikiEN-l] IP Blocks To: wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Message-ID: BAY15-F33E3235B548DB109BDCB183240@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Is there any way to block IP's yet allow logged in users to edit from that IP? My college's IP got blocked this morning due to Vandalism. I was just about to revert some other vandalism at lunch when I got the blocked notice.
Checking the IP's edit history, a couple of the vandalism edits have still not been reverted. The pages on "Proponent" and "United States Department for Transportation" are still vandalised but being blocked I can not revert.
Thanks
Burwellian
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Message: 5 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:02:01 +0000 From: Arkady Rose arkady.rose@gmail.com Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? To: David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com Cc: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: 43C52BF9.5020500@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
David Gerard wrote:
Whats the field?
Doll collectors, as I said. Significant hobby economically, these things go for hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars ... see http://www.denofangels.com/ and [[Super Dollfie]] (one of the most popular examples).
Specifically, Asian Ball-Jointed Dolls, as opposed to porcelain or any other types of dolls. They have only been around about 10 years, but already they have gained so rapidly in popularity that a recent example of a limited-edition doll sold on eBay for $5100.
The sort of information likely to be put into an ABJD wiki is going to be histories of the companies producing the dolls, details of all the different resin types and head molds produced, details of the most widely-acclaimed face-up artists (people who paint the faces) and customisers, and sections with how-tos on customisation and modding etc. - not the sort of thing for Wikipedia, perhaps. But the fact remains that basically the doll community has seen how specialists in other fields have been treated by the rabid AfD morons who assume that because *they've* not heard of something it must be not noteable and promptly delete, and quite frankly they fail to see why they should even bother touching the doll-related articles in WP when instead they can just create their own wiki, free of the current poisonous WP politics and petty instruction-creep that at present seems, quite frankly, endemic throughout WP at present and incidentally is the main reason I've pretty much gone on indefinite hiatus from both editing and from wikien-l personally.
-a
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Message: 6 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:05:29 -0700 From: Rob Smith nobs03@gmail.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: How to bring back people who don't want to bother? To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: 52a8cf060601110805if617c13m54f468bb40b81e@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Enduring six months of personal attacks, responding to it once during an ArbCom Hearing, and being banned for a year, while those who trashed me and smeared me as being "banned for personal attacks" are given license to do it again. This why the image and reputation of Wikipedia, and the image and reputation of editors contributing in good faith is everything.
nobs
On 1/11/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Nobs01 wrote:
Take it from a user victimized by the concerted efforts of sockpuppet
trolls
given licence to run rampant throughout Wikipedia: Reputation is
everything.
You were banned for personal attacks and placed on probation after that for disruption:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Nobs01_and_o...
Oddly enough, cases like yours are not what I was talking about.
- d.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:39:55 +0200 From: Mikko Virtaperko mikko@virtaperko.fi Subject: [WikiEN-l] static html dump script for wikipedia To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: 43C4C45B.9010301@virtaperko.fi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi, I wrote PHP script to dump Wikipedia:
http://mvp.jesusterror.com/wiki.html
It will create static html from defined number of Wikipedia pages. NOTE: You must have Wikipedia installed locally to do this.
If anyone is interested I'm happy to answer any questions or improve the program.
Mikko Virtaperko mikko ät virtaperko fi
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Message: 8 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:08:18 -0500 From: Snowspinner Snowspinner@gmail.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to bring back people who don't want to bother? To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Message-ID: 722597B2-06F0-49CC-A46F-1535AD80F1CA@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I think a very good first step would be to find a specialist wiki or two that are GFDL (Whether forks like Comixpedia or not) and copy them in. It shows humility, improves our project, and directly addresses the issue.
I'd say Memory Alpha, but they're CC. Comixpedia would be too controversial right now, this doll wiki is too new. Any other ideas?
-Phil
On Jan 11, 2006, at 9:57 AM, David Gerard wrote:
There's a specialist topic that's about to create its own wiki. In discussion on a board, one person said "Why not just use Wikipedia? What you're describing is identical." Another responded with: "No, some 15 year old moron will mark it for deletion just because they know nothing about it."
So that's part of our public image now. Well done alienating webcomics authors, i.e. creators of memes and popular culture on the net.
Not to mention the way the webcomics AC case ended: AFD trolls now have the all-clear to work actively to alienate actual experts, because the self-professed ignorant are now *officially* to be considered equal to those who have an actual bloody clue.
I was amazed knowledge of it had spread so far. Jimbo, you heard about this example at the recent UK Wikimedia meet (the doll collectors) - this was actually an independent example from the same field.
Experts from fields that actually haven't been alienated literally don't think it's worth bothering to try writing in Wikipedia any more. Is there anything we can do to rehabilitate Wikipedia's image in the outside world?
(yes, geni, I know you're happy to be rid of annoying specialist experts)
- d.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Message: 9 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:09:56 +0000 From: David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] IP Blocks To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org, burwellian@hotmail.co.uk Message-ID: fbad4e140601110809x39769ee5i12fda2c9d36f2e7b@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Jason Gazeley wrote:
Is there any way to block IP's yet allow logged in users to edit from that IP? My college's IP got blocked this morning due to Vandalism. I was just about to revert some other vandalism at lunch when I got the blocked notice.
MediaWiki bug 550:
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=550
At present it's got a few suggested patches, it's working out what's the best one to implement in terms of its social effects.
(cc to wikitech-l - what's the current developers' view on a good solution to 550? Are we anywhere near having one implemented?)
As for the block itself, that's obviously collateral damage, and if you can tell us the IP it should be promptly unblocked. What was the text of the block message?
- d.
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Message: 10 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:10:06 +0000 From: geni geniice@gmail.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] How to bring back people who don't want to bother? To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: f80608430601110810s375fd077k3421b7cb72a88c91@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 1/11/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
There's a specialist topic that's about to create its own wiki. In discussion on a board, one person said "Why not just use Wikipedia? What you're describing is identical." Another responded with: "No, some 15 year old moron will mark it for deletion just because they know nothing about it."
Unlikely. The problem is the people who do know a little about it. People don't tend to delete the maths stuff because they don't understand it at all. People do understand webcomics a little with the result that they feel they know enough to list them on afd.
So that's part of our public image now. Well done alienating webcomics authors, i.e. creators of memes and popular culture on the net.
Evidence that there is in fact a link here? Generaly if you look at the spred of info about wikipedia across weforums webcomic are not mentioned.
Not to mention the way the webcomics AC case ended: AFD trolls now have the all-clear to work actively to alienate actual experts, because the self-professed ignorant are now *officially* to be considered equal to those who have an actual bloody clue.
I was amazed knowledge of it had spread so far. Jimbo, you heard about this example at the recent UK Wikimedia meet (the doll collectors) - this was actually an independent example from the same field.
Why? Pretty much any forum on the web you go to has at least one thread on wikipedia these days. We can't hide stuff any more.
Experts from fields that actually haven't been alienated literally don't think it's worth bothering to try writing in Wikipedia any more. Is there anything we can do to rehabilitate Wikipedia's image in the outside world?
Without changeing it's fundimental structure? Not really. If you are going to write about areas of popular culture there are going to be other people around and they are sometimes going to dissagree with you.
(yes, geni, I know you're happy to be rid of annoying specialist experts)
No I'd accept them also decideing not be anoying.
-- geni
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Message: 11 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:14:02 +0000 From: David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Fwd: 6 Free Offers - Clearance - Extended until 31st January To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com Cc: Arkady Rose arkady.rose@gmail.com Message-ID: fbad4e140601110814v7aa76150p7e7a06dc791513dd@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I asked Arkady if there was a public link to the discussion. She said:
You have to be a member of DoA to read most of the threads, so no - it's not publically viewable. However from a quick glance through the discussion as it stands, the overwhelming consensus is "fuck WP" - only more polite than that. They don't want to get involved with the insidious bureaucracy and delete-happy morons, and frankly I don't blame them. They want to share their enjoyment of dolls, not get caught up in stupid edit-wars with Cat Piss Men. And you can quote me on that, too.
Note, by the way, that this field has NOT yet been through the AFD grinder that schools and webcomics have been through - rather, they're another group who have seen the rubbish going on there and decided "bugger that."
Who will be next? Who will be next that we don't hear about until well after the event?
Tell me that's not AFD culture being directly damaging to Wikipedia, now and for the future.
The AC has resoundingly failed to deal with the issue. (And I apologise myself for being marked away at the time.) It needs dealing with. Who can or will do something about it that will stick?
- d.
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