On 05/07/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
on 7/5/07 3:05 PM, David Goodman at dgoodmanny@gmail.com wrote:
Returning to the basic issue, Marc proposes centralization in order to have more effective collaboration in a structured environment. However, he does not propose what structure he wishes to adopt, or demonstrate that it would work better, or maintain the community trust, or keep the most productive contributors.
I have deliberately not proposed a specific structure for the Project because I believe it is premature to do so. What must occur first is a discussion of whether such a restructuring is needed. If the majority of Members of the Community (starting with those on this List) believe the present structure is working, it would be a gross waste of time to propose the specific details of an alternative one. I have already articulated many times, in many posts, why I believe a rethinking of the Project's structure is needed. I am now asking what the rest of you think.
Unfortunately, this proposal has come simultaneous with considerable expressions of disapproval of one of the few organs for the small amount of centralized decision making that we do have, and the specific rejection by the community of some of the proposals of those most involved in that structure.
What is your meaning here?
The people who are here at WP are, by and large, the ones who like chaos.
Most creative persons do. A work of art is the artist's way of sorting out the chaos. What's needed is a structure that prevents this creative process from being stifled, and getting bogged down by bullshit.
Many are here, particularly the younger people, specifically because of a greater comfort with this sort of extremely loose and spontaneous group.
As are some of us "older people" too :-).
And some of the older people are here because of disappointment with the fixed agendas of more organized groups.
And to show that an alternative can succeed and thrive.
We should work towards our strengths, and do what the present structure is best suited to do.
At present, the Wikipedia Project is not a user-friendly environment. It is the survival of the fittest. I would like to see it be the survival of the best.
Marc
Riddell's Law says that of every post in the list 20/100 will state that "Wikipedia is NOT the encyclopedia that everyone can write.".
Wikipedia is structured and practically no article can survive without some kind of interaction with a band of other editors. If they are sole projects they are demeed unnotable or just filling in red links on other articles. Some articles are started by a band of merry editors who get so tired of fighting they just leave and its often left to one editor to defend an article. Cruft articles never go through that process be they sport, game or TV related.
If projects were adopted to oversee all articles, it wouldn't help general editors who need to research "other stuff" and work on articles outside their own interest.
The structure of editors at the moment isn't the best. When I first joined a year ago there was still a movement to create sourced articles that filled red links. Since most of the red links were connected to WP:BLP, its upset a lot of editors who weren't cruft-ites but who wanted to expand the scope of Wikipedia. Deletions are running high and have been for months. If making a narrower better Wikipedia is the goal - Amen. To create new Project supervisors with watchlists of thousands of articles is not a way forward.
mike