stevertigo. Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:11:12 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I dont know what else to say. Either we have a culture which respects NPOV or we do not.
We don't. We have policies and guidelines... but the admins who close AFDs don't read them, and if they do they don't act on them. We have a deletion process that is deliberately opaque and awkward to prevent people from using it and getting the idea that deleting anything from WIkipedia is a good thing.
We also have large chunks of Wikipedia with hardly any editors applying the basic rules of Wikipedia. These areas are controlled by organised groups who make Wiki-life extremely difficult for anyone who tries to clean it up. Editors with the best intentions but without the stomach for a fight try their best and end up being driven off after being reported for vandalism or 3RR violations, or just being wiki-stalked and hassled on any article they edit.
To clean up these areas, any legitimate editor has to have the patience of a saint and an encylopedic (heh) knowledge of the Wikipedia rules system. He's got to be able to put up with the most extreme provocation and obvious bad faith... all the while smiling sweetly and assuming good faith while dozens of sock-puppets play stupid games. He's got to have the support of a group of editors, or a tame admin, to help him out too.
Naturally, most editors don't have this. So the way Wikipedia is set up right now, under the auspices of welcoming newbies, is a vandal paradise that treats legitimate editors as an endless renewable resource. it uses them up and throws them away by giving them little or no support and instead it defends the rights of vandals to edit. It even makes the finding out of who is socking up a tedious and officious process... just for that extra kick in the teeth for legitimate editors who do play by the rules and are faced with those who don't.
In summary, the system is broken. But you won't get any sense on this mailing list, because most of the people here don't actually edit Wikipedia these days. They just pontificate and have faith in some mystical power of the Wiki.