Not at (though I am only answering now for what I wrote). I spoke of defining different criteria. Nowhere in my response did I use the word "valid", not even for those that I do accept as valid. Being able to define a criterion is still a step short of determining its validity. Ec
John Lee wrote:
Then I believe both of you have just admitted that "notability" is a valid criteria for inclusion/deletion. After all, just try reading the definition of vanity according to Wikipedia Mark linked to.
John Lee ([[User:Johnleemk]])
Ray Saintonge wrote:
I see nothing wrong with his position. There are multiple deletion criteria available. Each has its own definition. We can define a vanity page in terms of self-promotion or self-glorification. Verifiability is a different and independent criterion. Using the description of one criterion to determine the applicability of a different one is illogical.
Ec
John Lee wrote:
Sorry, I don't understand - why would vanity pages be eligible for deletion if the information therein was 100% verifiable and factual? Delirium said that this isn't a strawman because *we get 100% verifiable articles such as vanity pages which are deleted*. You argue in favour of their deletion, because they are vanity pages - what constitutes a vanity page? A page written by someone seeking glorification? But, why, the information's verifiable! Isn't Wikipedia supposed to be a compendium of human knowledge? I honestly don't understand your paradoxical - dare I say, hypocritical - stance on this.
John Lee ([[User:Johnleemk]])
Mark Richards wrote:
It's a straw man because you are taking the case in dispute (schools) and claiming that if we keep schools, we will have to keep an article on each school band member.
There are existing rules to deal with vanity articles, and to the extent that we have a problem with them, they have been deleted as vanity.
Let's not confuse the issues of schools with some hypothetical deluge of articles about cheerleaders or dead cats.
If I have presented my case as an extreme one, then I have misrepresented my aims. I certainly do not support an article on each high school band member. I doubt that you could really write a verifiable and factual article on them that was not a vanity page anyway.
It's not that these people are not notable, they certianly are to some people, it is the fact that these would be vanity articles, I am not proposing to remove this criteria for deletion.