On Jan 12, 2004, at 10:24 AM, Robert wrote:
This is getting really ugly.
Agreed. Definitely agreed
A dozen people have nmade personal attacks on me, all of them falsely saying that I am making personal attacks.
Here's where it gets ugly, my friend.
Then an obviously anti-Israeli crowd is trying to define reality by voting, and is deleting vast amounts of proven facts in order to promote pro-Arab POV.
Facts are not defined by votes. Only hatred is.
If the consensus is that Wikipedia should promote anti-Zionism, anti-Semitism, and hateful crowds ganging up on one user, then that is precisely the reputation that it will get offline.
You must see that you're perpetuating the ugliness as much as your "attackers" (poor word choice of mine, but you know what I mean). Of course, the converse is true: your "attackers" are perpetuating the ugliness as much as you. It's just not necessary.
People have said things. People have interpreted and misinterpreted things. It's done, it's happened, and it's now in the past. Meanwhile, the *rest* of us are working on an encyclopedia. If this is a personal battle, I personally think you (very much plural) should simply drop it. If you wish to continue I would appreciate if it were taken off-list. These accusations and counter-accusations have no place here.
That said, there *is* a substantive issue hidden in this mess. The NPOV of certain articles is being questioned. Let's address that. What has happened to the articles in the past does not matter anymore. Remember, the page history may exist, but it's the latest revision that counts. Let's discuss what *is* there and what *should be* there. Without accusing each other of anti-Anythingism.
We are a community. We are based tightly around the encyclopedia, but we are a community. Anyone who is here to make offensive remarks or accusations is in the wrong place. #REDIRECT [[Usenet]].
That said, we must have to trust that others' remarks are not intended as accusations or otherwise meant to offend. If we don't give each other the benefit of the doubt, we'll all end up, well, basically like we are now: wrapped up in an unproductive argument over who said what (or didn't say what). In the worst case scenario, you take an insult as constructive criticism. Who cares? If someone tries to hurt you and you don't notice, the other person's comment will just fall flat on it's face. All the better.
Let's revive the substantive issues in an objective, fair, and, most importantly, calm manner. Please drop the rest, or, if you must, take it off-list. Thank you.
Concerned Wikipedian otherwise uninvolved in the matter, Peter