I'd just like to clarify one point. The NYT article does make it seem as if
the entire reason that the actions were done were because Jimmy asked or
requested it. This is not the case and I know this first-hand, of course
being one of those administrators involved. I did what I did because I felt
it was appropriate. I did not do it for any other reason. Of course I
cannot speak for others but I would only assume that they have similar
thoughts.
---
Rjd0060
rjd0060.wiki(a)gmail.com
In a message dated 6/30/2009 11:35:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
scs(a)eskimo.com writes:
> But we suppress news *all the time*.
> If I added to our [[Shawarma]] article the news that I had one
> for lunch today, that fact would be suppressed in a heartbeat,
> and rightly so.>>
> ----------------------------------
Different issue. We're talking about the suppression of news which does
not violate any policy. Your example violates at least two.
Will
**************
Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
In a message dated 6/30/2009 11:21:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dgoodmanny(a)gmail.com writes:
> Most (or almost all) people would enforce a rule
> like do no harm much more strongly when the harm is to named
> individuals whom they are aware of , and who are similar to them, and
> when they judge the person involved as not being guilty of harming
> others. The current statement of BLP ignores this, presumably taking
> it for granted.>>
>
-----------------
Which parts of the above are you advocating?
Will
**************
Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
In a message dated 6/30/2009 10:34:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
apoc2400(a)gmail.com writes:
> The reason to suppress the news
> of David Rohde's kidnapping is not mainly to improve Wikipedia, but to
> protect Rohde.>>
>
-------------------------------
Suppressing the news can't be said to "improve" Wikipedia in any reasonable
way.
**************
Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
Or since reporting on people and events can have negative effects in
general including death, are we now not to report on people and events if those
effects are negative toward us or ours? But it's evidently OK using the NYT
double-standard to report on them if they are negative toward "the other".
Will
**************
Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
There's a second challenge, in that we don't want to confirm information we
are avoiding releasing by replying with, "Shhh. This is being kept quiet."
As I'm sure most here realize, various idiots will then spread such a
response all over Digg and various blogs, therefore defeating the original
purpose. If they use a unique or unusual response, it's not going to work
as well as just saying the source is unreliable.
Stating that the source was unreliable was actually probably the most
effective route. I dislike the fact that this was very top-down and the
response was misleading, but would OTRS really have been more effective?
Sxeptomaniac
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:30:04 -0700
> From: Durova
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] News agencies are not RSs
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
>
> Agreed. The challenge is to codify this in a manner that doesn't step upon
> the slippery slope of censorship.
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Ian Woollard <ian.woollard(a)gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On 30/06/2009, Durova <nadezhda.durova(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Our usual BLP standards demonstrate respect for unwarranted damage that
> > > causes hurt feelings, or professional and community standing. Surely,
> > when
> > > a human life may reasonably be at stake, our responsibility is to be
> more
> > > careful rather than less careful
> >
> > Interestingly, that isn't currently part of WP:BLP. I think it needs
> > to be codified.
> >
> > Clearly, when the subject of the BLP's life may be significantly
> > endangered, through no fault of their own, from information that may
> > be widely published for the first time in the wikipedia, then there's
> > a very reasonable case that it shouldn't be published in the
> > wikipedia.
> >
> > > -Durova
> >
> > --
> > -Ian Woollard
> >
> > "All the world's a stage... but you'll grow out of it eventually."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://durova.blogspot.com/
>
>
So instead what we did, instead of merely reporting it and moving on, is to
make it into another front-page example of Wikipedia censorship, so it can
go around the world in the opposite direction as well. And for twice as
long.
Smart thinking. Let's raise the profile by trying to suppress it.
Has.. that.. ever... worked... before?
No it hasn't.
Will
**************
Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:03:33 +0100
> From: Sam Blacketer <sam.blacketer(a)googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] News agencies are not RSs
> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <e75b49f70906290903m485a5e6bo285d4216cc2dc993(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 4:55 PM, geni <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 2009/6/29 Gwern Branwen <gwern0(a)gmail.com>:
> > > ?We were really helped by the fact that it hadn?t appeared in a place
> > > we would regard as a reliable source,? he said. ?I would have had a
> > > really hard time with it if it had.?"
> > > ...
> >
> > The question is though is is
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pajhwok_Afghan_News genuinely not a
> > reliable source?
>
>
> What was that underlying principle which was codified after the Brian
> Peppers deletion debates? Ah yes, 'basic human dignity', now to be found at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Basic_dignity.
>
> This case is more about basic common sense. If someone's life may be
> endangered by what is on their wikipedia biography but is not widely
> reported elsewhere, I would expect that anyone sensible would find some way
> of applying policy so as to keep the life-endangering stuff off it. And
> that
> would take precedence over secondary arguments over whether obscure news
> agencies were reliable.
>
> --
> Sam Blacketer
>
Thank god common sense won out over the egotism of those who insist they
must know everything as soon as it happens, and also to tell everyone in
every forum possible. It would be utterly absurd to even take the
self-centered whining regarding censorship seriously. Waiting several
months for the conclusion of the incident in no way harmed WP.
It really doesn't matter what policy administrators used to keep it quiet,
or even if they abused the rules. The information had a very real
probability of affecting whether a man lived or died, so that takes obvious
precedence over internal rules on an online website.
Sxeptomaniac
In a message dated 6/29/2009 11:42:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ragesoss+wikipedia(a)gmail.com writes:
> It would raise his profile, indicate that Western media had taken
> notice of the kidnapping, and therefore raise his value to the
> kidnappers (either his value as a negotiating chip or his symbolic
> value if executed).>>
>
----------------------
So we're now going to set a "higher" moral position than any other
information outlet does? Because I'm pretty darn sure that they would report it, if
they had a reliable source from which to do so.
Or maybe someone can point out another situation where an information
outlet suppressed information of this import because it might "endanger someone's
life". I'm not talking about outing secret agents here.
Will
**************
Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
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We're currently trying to pull together ideas for "initiatives" that
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There have been lots of ideas posted at:
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which need fleshing out before they can be taken forward. We've also
got a list of things that we've already supported at
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We're having an open IRC meeting to discuss possible initiatives,
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