WikiEN-l August 2008

wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org

67 participants
80 discussions

Re: [WikiEN-l] Barbara Bauer case dismissed
by WJhonson＠aol.com 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

In a message dated 8/13/2008 4:17:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, newyorkbrad(a)gmail.com writes: My recollection is that you made some valid points and I acknowledged them as such, but then proceeded to weaken your better points by failing to acknowledge that the counterarguments had any validity at all, while in the process calling me various names.>> -------------- {{fact}} ? It's not like me to "call names". But sometimes my dosage is off. Will Johnson **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000… )

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Barbara Bauer case dismissed
by WJhonson＠aol.com 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

In a message dated 8/13/2008 3:49:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, newyorkbrad(a)gmail.com writes: I'd like you to go back to the Hornbeck/Ownby deletion discussion and re-read my lengthy comments there.>> -------------------------------------- Just as an example. I might be "notable" if you simply count the number of times and places where you can find me mouthing off about something :) But as far as I know, one hundred and twenty five newspapers across the country and in France, England, Canada and Guam didn't carry stories about me. I wasn't on Oprah, I didn't have a foundation named for me, and I didn't write a book about myself. I'm sure you can see there's quite a bit of difference in the casual ability to "find out" about someone like You or I by pouring over public records, and the determined effort of those people like Barbara Bauer, Matt Sanchez, Shawn Hornbeck to make their name stand out in bright lights. If you check the Shawn Hornbeck Foundation page you will find, that they are still active, at least as of a month ago. Still visiting various schools or what-have-you under their own name. Now any casual reader might say.... Well... Who IS Shawn Hornbeck. We should be answering that question, instead of turning out the lights. That's my position. It applies to all questions of that sort, even if the subject hates the result. Will Johnson **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000… )

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Barbara Bauer case dismissed
by David Gerard 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/08/wikipedia-wins-dismissal-baseless-defa… Section 230 immunity holds. - d.

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Barbara Bauer case dismissed
by WJhonson＠aol.com 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

In a message dated 8/13/2008 3:49:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, newyorkbrad(a)gmail.com writes: Although we have not adopted a "BLP opt-out policy," I do not understand why a user would consider it a significant priority to re-create an article containing predominently negative coverage about an, at best, highly-borderline-notable individual who has expressed extreme resentment regarding the existence of such article.>> ------------------------------------------ I didn't say it was a "significant priority" of mine. However two points, whether or not its "predominently negative", and whether or not she has "expressed extreme resentment" should have no impact on our mission, in my opinion. If someone is notable, then we should have an article. And where the chips fall is that person's own fault, not ours. As long as we present the sources evenly and balanced, if those sources universally denigate the person, than evidently that's what those sources do. It's our job to represent them, not to censor them. Will **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000… )

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Barbara Bauer case dismissed
by WJhonson＠aol.com 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

Since the article space is full-protected, someone will have to lift that in order to start the Barbara Bauer article once more. Will Johnson **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000… )

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Barbara Bauer case dismissed
by WJhonson＠aol.com 14 Aug '08

14 Aug '08

In a message dated 8/13/2008 2:49:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, szilagyi(a)gmail.com writes: And since she's now even more notable than ever due to the lawsuit, does this mean [[Barbara Bauer]] can be recreated? - Joe>> --------------------- Help me start it. Will Johnson **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000… )

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Some humor from WP:UAA
by Jonathan Hughes 13 Aug '08

13 Aug '08

> From: "Ron Ritzman" <ritzman(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [WikiEN-l] Some humor from WP:UAA > To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> > > * Yourmom2020 (talk ? contribs ? deleted contribs ? hardblock ? > softblock ? spamblock) > > * This user has edited at least one time. > * Matches the regular expression called Your mom. The portion > that matched was Yourmom. > > * This report was delayed until the user edited. > * The string called Your mom has a comment associated with > it: Not everything someone has to say about your mom is against > policy. See WP:U HBC NameWatcherBot (talk) 01:22, 13 August 2008 (UTC) > > So does that mean that there are things I can say about people's > mothers that is supported by policy? :) Your mother... is a wonderful person. So, yeah, I guess there're some things. [[User:Lifebaka]]

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Some humor from WP:UAA
by Ron Ritzman 13 Aug '08

13 Aug '08

* Yourmom2020 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · hardblock · softblock · spamblock) * This user has edited at least one time. * Matches the regular expression called Your mom. The portion that matched was Yourmom. * This report was delayed until the user edited. * The string called Your mom has a comment associated with it: Not everything someone has to say about your mom is against policy. See WP:U HBC NameWatcherBot (talk) 01:22, 13 August 2008 (UTC) So does that mean that there are things I can say about people's mothers that is supported by policy? :)

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The dangers of not citing Wikipedia
by WJhonson＠aol.com 13 Aug '08

13 Aug '08

In a message dated 8/12/2008 4:50:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, delirium(a)hackish.org writes: don't see why Wikipedia should be special-cased here. It's not common practice in academic publishing to cite all the research tools you used in arriving at your actual sources. I don't usually cite Lexis-Nexis when I look up an article through it, or JSTOR, or my local reference librarian, or Wikipedia, or Britannica, or some website with a list of interesting articles, or Google.>> ------------------------------------------------- That misstates the issue. Some of the above are mindless programmatic tools that merely cast indexes into the wind and see what sticks to them. They are not creative *on an article specific basis*. They are merely methods *by which* you can find expert human resources about one subject, they are not those resources themselves. So Lexis-Nexis, so Jstor, so local reference librarian, so Google. However Wikipedia, Brittanica and "some website with a list of interesting articles" (provided it's generated by specific human effort to that article topic, and not automagically) are not in the same category. The question to ask in these cases would be: "Would a PERSON recognize their work being revealed in my work, without citation?" The courtesy of secondary citation is not extended to a computer program but rather to a person, an author, or in the case of Wikipedia or Brittanica sometimes a small group of authors. It is *people* who we are trying to not offend. Google takes no offense, it cannot, as it has no emotions. An author of a biographical dictionary, can take offense. Will Johnson **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000… )

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Re: [WikiEN-l] The dangers of not citing Wikipedia
by WJhonson＠aol.com 13 Aug '08

13 Aug '08

In a message dated 8/11/2008 4:23:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com writes: I don't doubt that it happens. It's completely unacceptable and is why people should not cite Wikipedia is serious research.>> --------------------------- I can't agree with that. We have many articles that are quite good, clear, concise and very close to the money. Also I'm not sure where you draw the line between serious research and not-serious research? When I do my work, I use Wikipedia as a tool to ferret out other sources, to explain and illuminate side-issues, etc. The main focus of the thesis should rely on both primary and secondary material and Wikipedia can serve as secondary material. However if Wikipedia is your sole source of information, then you are in trouble. But if Wikipedia is a main source, or even a *starting* source from which you launch your digging, using its article citations to ferret out more details, then Wikipedia should be cited, whether you quote it or not. Will Johnson **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000… )

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WikiEN-l August 2008