What innovative (re)uses of Wikipedia or Wikimedia content are out there?
I have looked through the Mirrors and forks page, but nothing jumps out at
me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mirrors_and_forks
Also, what potential innovated uses of content might there be?
I'm seeking permission to license images I have of NHL trophies under GFDL
or compatible license. I'd like to give them examples or explanation of
positive benefits of such licensing and reuse of content and the philosophy
behind it.
Regards,
-Aude
I recently came across the following article:
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Sylvia_Browne_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Sylvia_Browne) . To get you up to speed, Sylvia Browne is a self-professed psychic.
Invevitably, James Randi is not impressed. Neither is Danny.
On the other hand, does this merit an article. She is an LP, so this is
essentially a "Criticisms of a BLP" article. On the other hand, it is quite
well-sourced, at least from a perfunctory glance at it.
Still, do we want to open the door to these kinds of articles? Criticisms of
Sylvia Browne could lead to Criticisms of Uri Geller to Criticisms of George
Bush to Criticisms of Tom Cruise to Criticisms of [pick your favorite]. The
very hypothesis of the article is POV. Surely, this is not what we are here
for.
I'd really like some input. Ideally, it should be merged, but the precedent
this poses should also be mentioned.
Danny
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
On 26 Apr 2007 at 11:54, "Frederick Noronha" <fred(a)bytesforall.org>
wrote:
> Hi all: Please don't discuss me or the page referring to me on
> Wikipedia.
Hey, *you* started it... :-)
> Instead, may I request that the page be deleted, so that this
> discussion takes on less of a personal I'm-protectiing-my-interest
> kind of tone.
Are you gonna be a danielbrandt about it? :-)
--
== Dan ==
Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org>
Date: 26-Apr-2007 09:24
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Deletions, speedy deletions... and retributions...
To: wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
On 26/04/07, Ronald Chmara <ron(a)opus1.com> wrote:
> Managing/having a mailing list is not notable, managing a website is
> not notable, managing a journal is not notable, nor is being a
> journalist, nor being a frequent F/OSS contributor, nor starting a ...
I'm not talking about just about any kid managing a mailing list, but
rather the guy who started this (and which today plays a significant
role in a media-poor society):
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-news-goanet.org/2003-August/000276…
Why would, for instance, Jimmy Wales' work at a global scale be
considered perfectly legitimate (and, of course, it is) but not Herman
Carneiro's at a Goa level? How does your above grid fit this
comparison? Or, do we accept hierarchies of importance, which are very
much defined by the same old traditional concepts that have been
dominating encyclopaedias over the centuries (and which the Wikipedia
is an alternative to in the first place)?
Yet, Herman Carneiro is considered "non-notable" by Wikipedia's standards!
And who has the energy to fight every single deletion decision?
It's just very discouraging to be a contributor to the Wikipedia these
days.... you tend to feel untrusted, with every attempt at
volunteering seen as suspect! Okay, growth and fame (of the Wikipedia)
comes at a price... so are we being victims of our own (Wikipedia's)
success?
Those making the decisions also need to realise that there's no such
thing as a "global standard". It's not fair to take a standard from NY
and apply it to Goa, India (population 1.3 million, a rustic society
till forty years ago!)
It's hard, if not impossible, for us guys to cope with your standards.
I've been a professional journalist for 23 years, and yet giving
references to my work (in the format Wikipedia expects) doesn't come
naturally to me, as it would, say, to some professional librarian or
research scholar in the University of Technology, Sydney, for
instance!
Just out of curiosity, I wonder how many who decide on deletions grew
up in rustic societies in the global South. And I don't mean Australia
or New Zealand :-) or appreciate the realities from those parts of the
planet... FN/Frederick Noronha.
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.orghttp://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
Konkani Wikipedia (under incubation) needs your help!
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kok
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Frederick Noronha <fred(a)bytesforall.org>
Date: 26-Apr-2007 07:00
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Deletions, speedy deletions... and retributions...
To: wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Hi all: Please don't discuss me or the page referring to me on
Wikipedia. I have no delusions of grandeur, didn't initiate the page
myself (just felt the need to correct the info which was incorrect on
it, after waiting awhile and seeing nothing change!), and don't claim
to be of any level of notability.
Instead, may I request that the page be deleted, so that this
discussion takes on less of a personal I'm-protectiing-my-interest
kind of tone.
On 26/04/07, Ronald Chmara <ron(a)opus1.com> wrote:
> On Apr 25, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Till Westermayer wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I have removed the proposed-for-deletion tag -- I guess it is a
> > borderline case
>
> Borderline? Hm... It's WP:COI, the only published "sources" are not
> only self generated (WP:SPS), they're also blogs loaded with viagra
> SPAM and forum sites... this is the very reason *why* we have so many
> guidelines on en, lest folks think that they can just throw up some
> content and therefore deserve their own wikipedia entry. AfD'ing
> this and any siblings.
What I am really concerned about is the manner in which entries --
which really deserve to be included on the Wikipedia (even if needing
a rewrite and better sourcing) -- get tagged for speedy deletion. And
I'm concerned about the decisions being taken obviously by people who
(sorry to be blunt) lack familiarity of the field and probably see it
as Latin and Greek, if not Sanskrit and Khmer! My interests lie in the
field of ICT-for-D (information and communication technology for
development) and the alternative media:
In particular, I refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios
[Even links to it deleted. Reasons given: only 200+ members; not
adequately sourced; non notability; etc, etc]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishab_A._Ghosh
He's one of the most prominent persons in the ICT-for-D debate of
Indian origin (and also known for his contribution at studying
European issues). He was the guy who is credited with having first
used the term FLOSS (Free/Libre and Open Source Software), and has
undertaken prominent studies at the European level. Recently, he also
edited a book 'Code: Collaborative Ownership and the Digital Commons'
Rishab Aiyer Ghosh-ed MIT-published (ISBN 0-262-07260-2). So is he
non-notable for Wikipedia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vikalp
Vikalp, a serious movement against film-censorship in India, linking a
few hundred film-makers, almost gets deleted. Again: "non-notability"!
Didn't have the time or energy to save another deserving case!
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Natural_History_of_South_Asia_mai…
The founder of the most influential cyber not-for-profit operation
from Goa, a former Portuguese colony on the west coast of India, is a
similar victim. Non-notability! And he started what grew into Goa's
most influential mailing-list (current readership 8-10,000+ daily)
when he was a 17-year-old!
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herman_Carneiro&action=edit
Groups in Latin America doing interesting work in the field of ICT4D
get questioned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITeMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESLARED
Fortunately, just salvaged on time after similar protests! But I can't
spend my life just in verbal skirmishes with certainly don't win
friends (and sometimes, don't even influence people!)
A friend of mine, who's active in global campaigns on ICT4D, couldn't
believe that Ungana Afrika could be threatened by a 'non-notability'
tag. But when will our Western friends recognise that the work one
does isn't always reflected in cyberspace... in large parts of the
globe, there's a total disjunct between the two. And that's what
shorthand like the 'digital divide' is all about in the first place!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ungana-Afrika
Another page deleted. Who cares about Free Software and Open Source in
the world's most populous planet (even if we have a network of 130+
groups in India alone)?
LUGs, FSUGs, GLUGs in India and Asia
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=LUGs%2C_FSUGs%2C_GLUGs_in_India_a…
And another one bites the dust:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gobala_Krishnan&action=edit
And finally, what triggered it all off:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios
Okay guys, I rest my case. --FN
> If it's widely noticed, it will be documented, and thus pass WP:V
PS: Are you so sure? Most of the cultures of this planet are still not
even documented, let alone digitised. And, in a Western-defined world,
what you're saying is if you aren't digitised, you don't exist!
Well... some fundamental differences in perception here.
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.orghttp://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
Konkani Wikipedia (under incubation) needs your help!
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kok
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list
Wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On 24 Apr 2007 at 19:34:20 -0700 (PDT), mattman206
<matt.valerio(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been using Wikipedia for awhile now, and try to contribute information
> when I can. Lately I've edited the "External Links" section for a couple of
> bands that I listen to. I added links to their MySpace pages, which provide
> a great place to play their music and see what they sound like.
>
> However, all of these edits get deleted quite soon thereafter. What's the
> deal? Does Wikipedia have a policy about removing links to MySpace? If so,
> what's the motivation?
It's just yet another case of people getting into a "zero tolerance"
mindset and refusing to allow any finely nuanced judgment regarding
what to link to. Myspace is mostly composed of the effusions of
hormonal teenagers and is not very encyclopedic, so some jump to the
conclusion that it never makes sense to link to it; however, as you
point out, musical artists and groups often have official MySpace
pages, taking advantage of that site's ability to easily embed music
as well as to promote social networking among the artist's fans, so
those cases do make sense for us to link to.
--
== Dan ==
Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/
Dear all,
It appears that my persistent questioning of the decisions to delete
pages related to some networks doing significant work, but which might
not be sufficiently visible in cyberspace (or the English-dominated
sections of it) seems to have led someone to decide to delete a page
referring to me at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Noronha !
The grounds given are "borderline notability". Not that this matters....
It's amusing to see oneself being shifted from being a "notable
Wikipedian" to "borderline notability" over a short period of time.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frederick_Noronha&diff=124590095&…
I would still maintain that those deleting pages need to act with
responsibility. Besides, the success of Wikipedia (as the 11th
most-visited site in the world, according to alexa.com) should not
lead to arrogance or unhelpfulness that discourages those attempting
to get heard in cyberspace (mostly with legitimate entries in the
Wikipedia, but maybe finding it difficult to cope with the
one-size-fits-all criteria that is prescribed, of notability, proper
referencing etc.... ).
In one particular example, a page was sought to be deleted (and links
removed) because of a strange mix of reasons. From arguments that it
had "only" 200+ members in its network, to other points of view that
it lacked sufficient references, or was more suited to an official
website rather than for Wikipedia. If this was so, would it not help
if the page could be improved, rather than deleted. (As one editor
once told me, good naturedly, "If I want to give you a reason to block
your article, I could give you any one of 31 good reasons for it."
Yeah, reasons are easy to come by, once someone's mind is made up.)
Needless to say, I would not bother to make a case for the retention
of a page focussing on me. It would be a relief, in fact, if the page
went off!
Take a look at its history:
The page was started on 19:07, 4 August 2005 by Nichalp. It was
subsequently edited by others.
When I came across it, I realised that my name had initially been
spelt wrong. Besides, there were inaccuracies in my description (there
is a difference, surely, in being " actively involved in the Indian
Free Software Foundation" and writing about it... I am definitely not
"a known (sic) for his articles on Christianity" (admittedly am fairly
curious about happenings there, though I don't subscribe to the
religion I was born in) ... by that time, I had virtually stopped
writing (but subsequently resumed, on another theme) for the
Indo-Asian News Service in New Delhi... In addition, I'm not "founder"
of BytesForAll, as mentioned, but a co-founder.
A number of the websites and blogs mentioned were either outdated or
non-functional, and there were new ones not noticed.
After waiting awhile, I realised nobody would probably make these
corrections, and did so under my own name.... which is actually not
supposed to be the Wikipedia is to work. That was in late Jan-early
Feb 2006 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frederick_Noronha&action=history
)
So, what's the point I'm making?
* Rather than handle the message, someone here seems to be intent on
shooting the messenger! The speedy deletions of pages of organisations
whose work is widely noticed and is certainly relevant to the Third
World (or the so-called "developing world") is unfair.
* There should be good reason for deletion of any page (this should
not be taken to mean that I'm making even an indirect case for my
page... I have no problem if it's deleted), and those exercising the
decision should preferably be aware of the subject-matter, and its
relevance, even if in niche areas.
* Special care needs to be taken about groups working in non-English
languages and those on the so-called "periphery" (i.e. not in the "big
cities that matter" or the bigger nations that have so many of their
denizens active in cyberspace). Many such groups might not be visible
enough in cyberspace, but that hardly means their work is not
relevant!
* How will Wikipedia balance its speedy growth in popularity, against
the tendency to flood it with irrelevant posts, and also be fair to
those who deserve to be on it without unnecessary deletions?
* At the end of the day, I believe an "alternate modelled"
encyclopedia also needs to be alternate enough to take a wider view of
our world. Wikipedia need not be -- indeed, should not be --
constrained by the top-down hierarchical restricted vision of
traditional encyclopedias. Or else, it will come to be dismissed as an
initiative that is alternative in its organising structure, but not in
its vision.
Lastly, may I add that I will continue to be a supporter of the
Wikipedia, and seek help for those with a record of adding to this
experiment to continue doing so, rather than getting caught up in
page-deletion battles.
Regards,
Frederick "FN" Noronha
Goa, India.
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.orghttp://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
Konkani Wikipedia (under incubation) needs your help!
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kok
Hi all: Please don't discuss me or the page referring to me on
Wikipedia. I have no delusions of grandeur, didn't initiate the page
myself (just felt the need to correct the info which was incorrect on
it, after waiting awhile and seeing nothing change!), and don't claim
to be of any level of notability.
Instead, may I request that the page be deleted, so that this
discussion takes on less of a personal I'm-protectiing-my-interest
kind of tone.
On 26/04/07, Ronald Chmara <ron(a)opus1.com> wrote:
> On Apr 25, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Till Westermayer wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I have removed the proposed-for-deletion tag -- I guess it is a
> > borderline case
>
> Borderline? Hm... It's WP:COI, the only published "sources" are not
> only self generated (WP:SPS), they're also blogs loaded with viagra
> SPAM and forum sites... this is the very reason *why* we have so many
> guidelines on en, lest folks think that they can just throw up some
> content and therefore deserve their own wikipedia entry. AfD'ing
> this and any siblings.
What I am really concerned about is the manner in which entries --
which really deserve to be included on the Wikipedia (even if needing
a rewrite and better sourcing) -- get tagged for speedy deletion. And
I'm concerned about the decisions being taken obviously by people who
(sorry to be blunt) lack familiarity of the field and probably see it
as Latin and Greek, if not Sanskrit and Khmer! My interests lie in the
field of ICT-for-D (information and communication technology for
development) and the alternative media:
In particular, I refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios
[Even links to it deleted. Reasons given: only 200+ members; not
adequately sourced; non notability; etc, etc]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishab_A._Ghosh
He's one of the most prominent persons in the ICT-for-D debate of
Indian origin (and also known for his contribution at studying
European issues). He was the guy who is credited with having first
used the term FLOSS (Free/Libre and Open Source Software), and has
undertaken prominent studies at the European level. Recently, he also
edited a book 'Code: Collaborative Ownership and the Digital Commons'
Rishab Aiyer Ghosh-ed MIT-published (ISBN 0-262-07260-2). So is he
non-notable for Wikipedia?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vikalp
Vikalp, a serious movement against film-censorship in India, linking a
few hundred film-makers, almost gets deleted. Again: "non-notability"!
Didn't have the time or energy to save another deserving case!
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Natural_History_of_South_Asia_mai…
The founder of the most influential cyber not-for-profit operation
from Goa, a former Portuguese colony on the west coast of India, is a
similar victim. Non-notability! And he started what grew into Goa's
most influential mailing-list (current readership 8-10,000+ daily)
when he was a 17-year-old!
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herman_Carneiro&action=edit
Groups in Latin America doing interesting work in the field of ICT4D
get questioned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITeMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESLARED
Fortunately, just salvaged on time after similar protests! But I can't
spend my life just in verbal skirmishes with certainly don't win
friends (and sometimes, don't even influence people!)
A friend of mine, who's active in global campaigns on ICT4D, couldn't
believe that Ungana Afrika could be "threatened" by a 'non-notability'
tag. But when will our Western friends recognise that the work one
does isn't always reflected in cyberspace... in large parts of the
globe, there's a total disjunct between the two. And that's what
shorthand like the 'digital divide' is all about in the first place!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ungana-Afrika
Another page deleted. Who cares about Free Software and Open Source in
the world's most populous continent (even if we have a network of 130+
groups in India alone)?
LUGs, FSUGs, GLUGs in India and Asia
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=LUGs%2C_FSUGs%2C_GLUGs_in_India_a…
And another one bites the dust:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gobala_Krishnan&action=edit
And finally, what triggered it all off:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios
Okay guys, I rest my case. --FN
> If it's widely noticed, it will be documented, and thus pass WP:V
PS: Are you so sure? Most of the cultures of this planet are still not
even documented, let alone digitised. And, in a Western-defined world,
what you're saying is if you aren't digitised, you don't exist!
Well... some fundamental differences in perception here.
--
FN M: 0091 9822122436 P: +91-832-240-9490 (after 1300IST please)
http://fn.goa-india.orghttp://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com
Konkani Wikipedia (under incubation) needs your help!
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/kok
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Kirk [mailto:gary.kirk@gmail.com]
>Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 01:25 PM
>To: 'English Wikipedia'
>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] "Wicked-pedia" in today's Daily Mail
>
>So really, why write a story about it in <s>newspaper</s> the Daily
>Mail? A friend vandalises my userpage. Do I use this as a stage to
>attack him? No. I move on.
>
>And Jerry Sanger, I ask you... ;-)
>
>On 23/04/07, Tony Sidaway <tonysidaway(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 4/23/07, Mak <makwik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Here's the url
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id…
>> >
>>
>> Quite a well written, amusing little piece, not at all the hack job
>> I'd been led to expect. Petronella Wyatt was apparently vandalised by
>> the insertion of all kinds of lurid allegations. She complained and
>> apparently it was fixed. She thinks she knows who did it.
>--
>Gary Kirk
What caused this is writing an article about someone who is not notable enough that the article would be read or watched. If it were not autobiographical, at least the creator of the article might have it on their watchlist. But as it is, who knew or cared? Our process depends on articles getting enough attention that errors are noticed.
Fred
"Todd Allen" wrote
> If we can find some common threads as to
> why it's happening, maybe we can slow the rate down.
People have to learn to pace themselves. People have to understand how negative the effects can be if they try to force the pace on WP. I think people here may believe that they are here for the long term, but may lack the patience that is implied in saying that.
Charles
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