WikiEN-l December 2005

wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org

192 participants
299 discussions

Re: Merry Christmas from Daniel Brandt (David Gerard)
by Rob 01 Jan '06

01 Jan '06

Thanks. Two questions though: It sounds promising, but would this really make any more difference than a lawyer's c&d? And how does one identify who is upstream of Brandt? David Gerard <fun(a)thingy.apana.org.au>: DMCA notice. Anyone from any country can send one of these. To him and two levels of upstream. Possibly as a press release as well. http://www.holysmoke.org/ga/ga45.htm - shows how [[Tilman Hausherr]] has successfully used DMCA notices sent from Germany when Scientology-related organisations played fast and loose with his photos. The takedown provisions of the DMCA are a matter of great concern, but a DMCA notice when someone is pretty damned clearly *ripping off your stuff* is IMO quite morally sound. __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com

16 20

On Transparency
by Steven Ericsson Zenith 01 Jan '06

01 Jan '06

A brief contrarian point of view. If Wikipedia is to succeed in any measure to move beyond its tabloid status then transparency is essential. That is, every admin must necessarily have their identity exposed and it surprises me somewhat to see the resistance here - and I find it hard to justify. Authority (in the sense of an encyclopedia) comes because the individuals involved are transparent and respected in some conventional sense. Hidden identity provides no basis for authority since the landscape of individuals is unknown and the changes to that landscape impossible to track. Such that, even if a group of anonymous admins is able to command respect for a period, there is no guarantee, no way to judge, that a group of admins have the same capacity in the future. Indeed, if the current group of admins do manage to establish public confidence then the public is immediately at risk since that group can be opaquely usurped. The short end is that for the long term welfare of Wikipedia admins - all contributors - need to be transparent - otherwise Wikipedia is simply a propaganda engine. That the journal Nature should give any support to the scientific articles in Wikipedia is a cause of great concern - since Wikipedia is not a specialist encyclopedia they have by inference given unfounded credence to the whole. With respect, Steven -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Stevenzenith

8 7

alleged vandalism
by Pat Gallacher 01 Jan '06

01 Jan '06

I have been blocked for alleged vandalism. I think this is a mistake. The blockage applies to my IP address not my user name. I am unable to email the admin who decided to block me. This has happened before, I think things are getting confused. My username is PatGallacher. ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Exclusive Xmas Game, help Santa with his celebrity party - http://santas-christmas-party.yahoo.net/

3 2

"Gift of knowledge:" having it both ways
by wikipedia2006＠dpbsmith.com 31 Dec '05

31 Dec '05

When people complain about inaccuracies in Wikipedia, the stock answers are that such complaints are invalid, or involve a misunderstanding of Wikipedia, because: --It's a work in progress --It's not an encyclopedia yet --Every page has a wee little "disclaimers" link that potentially would display a huge bold all-caps "WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY" if you clicked on it. But when we ask for money, do we say: --"Give the gift of an open wiki-community?" --"Give the gift of process, not product?" --"Give the gift of a whipped-up blend of tasty knowledge spiced with a few foul nuggets of misinformation?" We do not. We say "give the gift of knowledge." Small wonder that we're starting to see some hostility from the outside. We're trying to have it both ways. We set expectations ("give the gift of knowledge") and then are surprised when people have the expections we set.

4 3

Article: Childlove movement
by homey2005＠sympatico.ca 31 Dec '05

31 Dec '05

"Childlove movement" is a POV euphemism for pedophilia advocacy. There is currently and AFD on the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Childlove_move… however, we have a small number of pedophilia advocates (self-identified on their user pages) who have been editing pedophilia related articles in an attempt to promote their POV. What this means is there may not be "consensus" at the AFD to take action such as deleting, merging or renaming the article. However, I think it's quite clear that the name of the article at least is POV. Just as we would not allow a small group of dedicated anti-Semities to maintain an article title such as "Holohoax" we shouldn't allow a small group of pedophiles to use wikipedia to promote their preferred terminology of "childlover". Any ideas as to how we should handle this? If a small group of dedicated advocates can block consensus that is a serious threat to our NPOV policy. Homey

1 0

Re: Ads on Wikipedia
by homey2005＠sympatico.ca 31 Dec '05

31 Dec '05

You know, it's funny, just the other day I was leafing through the Encyclopedia Britannica and was marvelling at the number of ads on each page. Ads would kill wikipedia and would put us under pressure to suppress information that was embarassing to our advertisers and allow puff pieces. This should be a non-starter if we are serious about the principles of this project.

1 0

Re: [WikiEN-l] Merry Christmas from Daniel Brandt
by Rob 31 Dec '05

31 Dec '05

From: Ben Emmel <bratsche1(a)gmail.com <http://us.f319.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=bratsche1@gmail.com&YY=65890&or…>>: > Has anyone tried simply communicating with him civilly? One would think that > we could work out some compromise with his HiveMind website and also our > content. I find it hard to believe that a man who works hard to prevent > "privacy violations" would commit such a large one as posting the > private details of all 650+ admins online. Do you want to try? I don't mean that in a snarky way, but a number of people would be thankful if someone could get through to him. I believe a number of previous attempts have been made. Linuxbreak talked to him on the phone at length, and Jimbo even offered to fly out to him and talk to him in person. The problem is that his demands change depending on when you talk to him and involve a lot of things that we really can't compromise on. They've included deleting the article altogehter, prior notification if an article is posted about him, removing criticism and links to criticism of him, and locking the article to prevent further edits. Perhaps we can get a compromise if someone can just nail him down to something that would be acceptable to our principles and policies. While LB reports that he seemed a reasonable fellow on the phone, I don't think a reasonable guy compiles a hit list of his enemies and uses it to attempt blackmail them into doing what he wants, a bold new experiment in Wiki vandalism which we don't seem to be terribly concerned about. I'd just say delete the thing altogether and save the fuss, but he seems to made himself all the more notable by getting a tremendous amount of press for various things since the article was created.

1 0

Turn off article creation AND deletion.
by Daniel P. B. Smith 31 Dec '05

31 Dec '05

How about this for an experiment: turn off article creation _and_ deletion for a while? Freeze the table of contents (not that we have one)... So that all anyone could possibly do is to edit existing articles? It would force everyone to pay attention to the articles that exist already, and with 857,833 of them you'd think people could find something worth their attention. With deletion being impossible, AfD would become unnecessary... as would DRV. So, that should make one faction happy. On the other hand, there would be no opportunity to add subtrivial topics. (Or trivial topics, or significant topics). That should make another faction happy.

28 109

Very odd goings-on concerning Snoop Dogg and 50 Cent material
by Tony Sidaway 30 Dec '05

30 Dec '05

A Snoop Dogg bootleg or unofficial compilation came up for undeletion recently, having obviously been deleted in error at AfD. I undeleted it and so did David Gerard. Now someone has listed every single article on unofficial Snoop Dogg albums for deletion--an active that I can only describe as extremely stupid. An attempt to merge the material--nearly all of which can be verified on official websites of reputable companies is now subject to a deletion listing. A similar, though, smaller, campaign centers around the unofficial released of Snoop Dogg, and involves listing for deletion among other items an article about the work "50 Cent is the future", which was one of two independent works produced by 50 Cent when he lost his record deal and is credited by 50 Cent himself with bringing his work to Eminem, who signed him to Shady Records. I fear that this constitutes a deliberate campaign to remove from Wikipedia a significant material about major rap artists. I find the actions in trying to remove this important material vindictive and impossible to explain. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Welcome to tha chuuch mixtape vol.1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Snoop_Dogg_min…

6 12

Re: [WikiEN-l] "Fair use" images no allowed in userspace?
by Redvers ＠ the Wikipedia 30 Dec '05

30 Dec '05

From: Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com> > Regarding at least the political templates, I would > like to raise, > gently, a different issue. I have concern about > people massing together > in groups based on political affiliations at > Wikipedia. > > For me, when I enter Wikipedia, I try to leave my > personal politics at > the door. I try to leave my personal opinions about > religion, etc. at > the door. Here, I am a Wikipedian. And this > inspires in me a feeling > of serious quiet thoughtful reflection. A mood of > kindness and love. A > mood of helpfulness and productivity. Neutrality > and _getting it right_ > in the company of others who are doing the same, > this is what I'm here for. > > Outside, I may be an advocate. But here, I am a > Wikipedian. The point is a good one Jimbo, but it doesn't seem to operate in the real world IMO. People come to the 'pedia with their POVs intact. It would be lovely if they correctly left them at the door but they don't - they're only human. My userboxes are on my userpage not for my personal gratification, but to make a statement: "My views are...". That way, if ever I get into a NPOV dispute with someone, they can see what I believe and work from that point. In effect, I'm declaring an interest and forcing myself to edit against that type so that no-one can ever say "your edit there betrayed the fact that you are a XXX". I've found that a lot of POV is subtle. It isn't "George W is a hero"/"George W is a murderer", it's "X church is fundamentalist"/"X church is extreme"/"X church has different views from the majority of Y churches"/"X church is an evangelical church". The choice of words is always going to be POV in those cases. I declare on my userpage that I am an aethist. Therefore, any edit I make to [[X Church of Y]] should be seen through that prism; and I must ensure that my publically stated views don't show through in that edit. Of course, I'm also expecting impossibly high standards of others in this - members of X church are just as likely to write NPOV as anyone else. But if they declare on their userpage that they are X church, then it's easier to judge the quality of a disputed edit. So I'd make the userboxes a requirement if I ruled the world. But I don't (something for which we should all be eternally grateful). :"REDVERS" ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Exclusive Xmas Game, help Santa with his celebrity party - http://santas-christmas-party.yahoo.net/

1 0

Jump to page:

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

WikiEN-l December 2005