Hello,
I just wanted to congratulate the English wikipedia on Dannies
departure. I am sure the neutrality and objectivity of Wikipedia will
very much profit from it.
If you don't think so, there's work to do:
* Al-Aqsa Intifada
* Anti-Israel movements
* Anti-Semitism
* Arabs and anti-Semitism
* Christian-Jewish reconciliation
* Deir Yassin massacre
* Dhimmi
* First Intifada
* Golan Heights
* Hezbollah
* History of Israel
* History of anti-Semitism
* Islam
* Islam and Judaism
* Islam and anti-Semitism
* Islamism
* Israeli-Palestinian conflict
* Israeli-Palestinian conflict timeline
* Israeli attack on USS Liberty
* Israeli settlement
* Israeli terrorism
* Israelis and anti-Palestinian racism
* Jenin
* Jewish fundamentalism
* List of massacres committed during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war
* Muhammad
o List of Muslims
o Palestinian refugee
* PLO and Hamas
* Palestine
* Palestine Liberation Organization
* Palestinian
* Palestinian Authority
* Palestinian territories
* Proposals for a Palestinian state
* Rachel Corrie
* Six-Day War
* Terrorism against Israelis
* The Bible in Islam
* Wahhabism
* West Bank
* Yasser Arafat
* Zionism and racism
* Zionist conspiracy theories regarding the September 11, 2001
Terrorist Attacks
these are some of the articles linked from [[Wikipedia:NPOV dispute]].
Minus talk and wikipedia pages, they make up almost 30% of all articles
which are currently under a neutrality dispute.
greetings and have fun,
elian
PS: could someone please delete my user account on en?
On the whole discussion on pictures:
What about pictures of:
Dead, bloody people (common on european TV)
Drug paraphenalia
Step by step bomb making
Dangerous animals
Deformed lifeforms from genetic experiments
Injured people from combat (limbs tangled, guts spilled, heads
disfigured)
Medical pictures of diseased bodypart
Election proceedings (hello PRC)
War crimes (remember the photo of the US officer executing a
vietnamese during the vietnam war?)
Sexual acts, such as penetration, arousal, nipple clamps, bondage,
etc.
Domestic violence
Aborted Foetuses
To paraphrase the founder of the nizkor project in a persional email:
Don't censor yourself. Plenty others will censor you for free.
=====
Christopher Mahan
chris_mahan(a)yahoo.com
818.943.1850 cell
http://www.christophermahan.com/
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>
> However, wiki-markup has no convenient way of representing footnotes and
> citations. In my fantasy, some hypertexty mechanism could give you the
best
> of both world--invisible footnotes that don't interrupt the text but can
be
> made visible if you want to trace the authority for something.
>
This is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind, but didn't express too well
due to the imbibing of far too much home-made wine last night ;-)
Graham (Quercus robur)
---
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Anthere wrote:
>I respectfully disagree that the English wikipedia is first and
>beforemost for the English speaking world. Unless you agree
>to include most Europe for example, as most adults now speak
>a reasonable amount of English.
If they speak English well enough to be able to effectively use the English
Wikipedia, then they are part of the English Wikipedia's audience. And we
should always write to our audience within the bounds of NPOV. However, the
primary audience of the English Wikipedia should still be native speakers.
>We do not build a project with a special pov depending on
>languages and cultures supposed to be associated to specific
>country.
Of course not! :) That is why I said 'within the bounds of NPOV'. It is more
of a focus issue and it is about writting for your audience. That is why
Wikibooks, for example, can use NPOV without having to fill textbooks (a
specialized works of reference) with largely irrelevant side-topics.
>An article on the English wikipedia is supposed to be neutral
>for American readers, but supposed to be neutral for french
>readers as well. If not (actually, it is not), we can't claim our
>goal is to be neutral
Focus and neutrality are two different things. Different cultures will have
different wants and needs from a work of reference. If a large segment of
your readership is interested in a certain aspect of a subject, then that
aspect should have higher prominence in the article that deals with that
subject.
>What would you feel when seeing the pict of a perfectly classical
>(for us) clitoris, with the label being not "clitoris" but being
>"uncirconcized clitoris" ? Would it feel quite right ?
We have already gone over this above where I said go ahead and use the wording
'intact'. Same goes here.
>The topic of female circonsision is only very shortly mentionned in
>two lines at the bottom of the article. And that's it. Not mentionned
>in the anatomy. Not additional link.
This proves my point about focus; Since we are a group of volunteers, I do not
find it at all surprising that the topic of female circumcision is in this
state in the English Wikipedia. It simply isn't on the minds of as many
English speakers as I imagine it is on the minds of French speakers (many of
whom, as you note, are from parts of Africa where this practice is common).
So I would expect there to naturally be more of a need to elevate the issue of
female circumcision to a higher level in the French Wikipedia as there is in
the English one. Maybe even to a level where it would make sense to have a
photo of the genitals of a circumsized female next to a photo the genitals of
an intact female in an article that deals with female genitalia in general.
If a large percentage of your readers would expect such a thing, then it
should be there. That is focus and writing to your readership.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
Viajero wrote:
>...
>Sometimes it really is better to wipe the slate clean and begin anew.
>...
Yes - I agree. Jimbo really should take a look at the stuff added to VfD
before making a decree that VfD should be abolished. Ideals are all fine and
good, but it is us, not him, who are in the trenches. There is just too much
crap added on a daily basis for us to fix it all. Sorry Jimbo.
But I agree that VfD should not be the primary solution for bad content and
that Cleanup and its associated pages may not be used enough. However, most
of what is added to Wikipedia daily is already fixed via the wiki process -
/very/ little is actually removed or deleted. So maybe the lack of use of the
Cleanup pages compared to VfD isn't really that big of an issue after all.
Nothing wrong with separating the wheat from the chaff. That doesn't
necessarily mean deletion of a page, but if the page only contains chaff and
no wheat ...
Sometimes an edit link is more informative.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
I noted that the user Wik has listed at least
* Angela
* RickK
* Hephaestos
* Jiang
all sysops, on Problems users the last three days!
--
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The pages on genetalia should not contain images of
genetaila. There are basic taboo issues which we
should make some attempt to respect.
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Tribble sex?
(I'm sorry. I couldn't resist being both stupid and smartass.)
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Nikos-Optim <optim81(a)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Saturday, January 10, 2004 3:09 pm
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: Pictures of genitalia
> probably refers to [[Penis]]
>
> (damn, please let us find something more productive to
> do than wasting our time with penises and such stuf!)
>
> --Optim
>
> --- Anthere <anthere8(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > dpbsmith(a)verizon.net a écrit:
> > > Re circumcision: it looks to me as if the current
> > article has pictures of
> > > both a circumcized and an uncircumsized penis, so
> > what's the problem?
> >
> >
> > http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision ?
> >
> > There is no images whatsoever on that article.
> >
> > Is there another article on circumcision somehow ?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
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>
Erik writes:
> However, I think we should be very careful with such
> taboos, and only apply them when there is almost
> universal agreement to do so. In other words, when
> there's *near* unanimous consensus not to have images,
> then we can do without them.
So far, so good. I agree.
> This is not the case for genitalia -- I think pictures
> of genitalia are only offensive to a relatively small
> segment of the population
I disagree. A very large number of Americans will refuse to
use Wikipedia if it contains color photographs of penises,
vaginas, anal sphincters, etc. If we do not have at least
some level of protection, then we will become one of
America's most-blocked site on home and school Internet
filters.
(On the other hand, such blocking might occur because we
have NPOV discussions of God and religion, which is a
threat to many Americans as well...)
Perhaps main articles should have no such images, but can
contain a link to a related article with such photos. That
way even if pages are blocked due to certain images, the
main articles would still be available to be read in most
homes and schools.
Robert (RK)
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or should I upload the pictures I took at the 2003
North American Felching Convention?
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