Mav said
Anthere wrote:
>>Unless I seriously missed something, the
>>comment RK made just above is a rather old one.
>RK has been saying acting in a similar manor since the day that I first
>arrived at Wikipedia nearly two years ago. So a comment he made in July isn't
>that old in my book. The point is that he has not improved and continues to
>act badly.
Of course Mav. You are right. I did not say his current behavior was ok.
However, the fact is
RK has been there since (say) 2 years
During these two years, he has been behaving in a way many people here find not acceptable
Recently, he has received a serious warning; somehow, he is currently on probation (on a watch list ?)
It is important to consider whether the warning had an effect or not, hence to *compare* his behavior since the warning, to what it was *before* the warning.
If the warning did not change anything, then this kind of warning is useless with RK.
I personnaly think it made a difference. He is (I think) not calling for banning anymore, he is not calling people vandals, he is not insulting them so rudely. Or (in case I miss something), he is doing it less than before. As Cimon pointed out, he is careful not to use some trigger words.
Before, he said to some people they were nazi (or equivalent comments). This is direct insult, with little backup provided usually. So, a pure attack.
Now, he says "your comments might be seen as anti-semit by some people". Well, it is more polite; it does not say "I *am* bad", it says "some people consider I am, as regards their personal frame of reference". I suppose he could even cite people to support his claim.
Of course, I disagree, but I am left the opportunity not to comment this (people are free to have an opinion), while being accused of being nazi somehow force someone to justify herself, to *prove* she is not.
Eh :-) Ultimately... writing "Anthere is a nazi" is taking position. Forcing opinion. Closing the discussion. Bad.
Writing, "according to most american rabbins, Anthere is holding antisemit comments" is ...is... is...
Is that not what we are *precisely* doing on Wikipedia ?
Okay, my position is that he has been making efforts, and that should be recognised. That is why, regardless of other comments he made, I think I had to mention that the summary you copied was anterior to the warning. I would have felt dishonnest with wikipedians if I had not mentionned this fact.
This said, the fact he made efforts is good.
Whether the efforts are sufficient is another matter.
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I would like to know whether some of you have noticed shifts in the way other wikipedians (you perhaps) were talking after a while. The other day, in an icq discussion, someone wrote to me (on a subject irrelevant to Wikipedia), "I think this is a bad idea, but others appear to think differently". I am ***sure*** that two months ago, that person would have just said "this is a bad idea."
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