WikiEN-l October 2003

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91 participants
397 discussions

Stevertigo and RK - a misunderstanding
by martin＠myreddice.freeserve.co.uk 02 Oct '03

02 Oct '03

At great personal effort, I have determined that the root cause of RK's recent post to this mailing list regarding Stevertigo is a simple misunderstanding on the part of RK. RK misattributed two paragraphs of text, claiming on the talk page that they were added by Stevertigo. In fact they were added by an anonymous IP who has subsequently created a new account "La Minturnesa". The edit in question is this one: http://en2.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Christian- Jewish_reconciliation&diff=1509331&oldid=1509289 http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Christian- Jewish_reconciliation&diff=1509331&oldid=1509289 Details of edit: "04:34, 1 Oct 2003 . . 205.188.208.42" I'm sure Stevertigo will join me in forgiving RK for this understandable lapse in concentration, and I look forward to Stevertigo receiving a similar apology to the one that RK so graciously gave to Jtdirl upon making a similar error. -Martin "MyRedDice" Harper

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"Louis Kyu Won Ryu"
by martin＠myreddice.freeserve.co.uk 02 Oct '03

02 Oct '03

Robert wrote: > Can someone get "Louis Kyu Won Ryu" to stop vandalizing my > home page? For the record, it's Robert's TALK page. > He probably is Martin, but I will pretend otherwise. for the moment For the record, I'm not Louis. A developer could probably prove this beyond reasonable doubt. Further, I do not know who Louis might be, or if sie is anyone I know. Like Mr. Kaiser, I can speculate. Unlike Mr. Kaiser, I will do so privately. > Martin has assumed other false identities in the past. For the record, I have only one account on Wikipedia, and that is [[user:MyRedDice]], where I give my full legal name, my work address, a non- disposable email address, and a self-photo. I have never had any other Wikipedia accounts. On the other hand, I've previously engaged on a forum which strongly encouraged the adoption and theft of multiple ever-changing identities. Perhaps this is what RK is referring to? http://www.algonet.se/~kajn/ -Martin "MyRedDice" Harper

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Re: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 3, Issue 5
by Robert 02 Oct '03

02 Oct '03

This harassment is totally out of control. Martin (MyRedDice) is till vandalizing my talk page. Stop this harassment at once. And will people kindly remove the anti-Catholic diatribes? RK ===== "I prefer a wicked person who knows he is wicked, to a righteous person who knows he is righteous". The Seer of Lublin [Jacob Isaac Ha-Hozeh Mi-Lublin, 1745-1815] __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

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RE: [WikiEN-l] Re: Christian-Jewish reconciliation.
by Poor, Edmund W 02 Oct '03

02 Oct '03

Perhaps it's not about who's "lost their cool" but more about what is the best way to write _neutrally_ about a controversial subject. I've just spent the better part of 2 hours looking over the various edits and comments. Much of what was reverted looked significant NPOV-deficient to me. Let's try to leave personalities out of this, and figure out how to fix the article -- or at least come up with a solution to the current impasse, so the article can be un-protected. By the way, would some admin (other than me) please add to the top of [[Christian-Jewish reconciliation]] the standard text about ''the neutrality of this page is disputed''? I don't dare do it myself, because of the guideline about "he who protects a page must not edit it". Ed Poor

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Re: WikiEN-l Putting a notice of dispute
by Anthere 02 Oct '03

02 Oct '03

> By the way, would some admin (other than me) please > add to the top of > [[Christian-Jewish reconciliation]] the standard > text about ''the > neutrality of this page is disputed''? I don't dare > do it myself, > because of the guideline about "he who protects a > page must not edit > it". > > Ed Poor >IMHO, I think that that is protesting the page anyway. >This is the type of case where it's the spirit of the >law, not the letter. If you think that the neutrality >of the article is disputed, then you can't edit it >(unless we want to change that rule partially). LDan If you think that the neutrality of an article is disputed, then you can't edit it even to put a lack of neutrality banner on it ? I think this is deeply curious. One would say on the contrary that the one disputing an article could precisely be the one adding a banner. And that once an article is protected, it is so obvious that its neutrality is disputed, that anyone could put a banner without fearing to be breaching any rule. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

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RE: [WikiEN-l] Re: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 3, Issue 5 (Robert's message)
by Poor, Edmund W 02 Oct '03

02 Oct '03

Brian, Sometimes the best way to deal with a conflict is to show some appreciation for each party. By the way, I like what you said about a "parallel universe". I often feel that way when confronted by someone else's version of "reality". Why, there are even economists who believe that increasing the capital gains tax rate will make poor people richer! ;-) Ed Poor

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Re: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 3, Issue 3
by Robert 02 Oct '03

02 Oct '03

I am appalled that people are refusing to read the full text of Stevertigo's comments, and are snipping tiny pieces of them to prove their points. (i.e. that he is somehow not anti-Jewish.) Stevertigo has and is writing non-stop anti-Semitic rants, and attacking *me* for standing up to this is irrational at best, and flat out anti-Semitic at worst. Did you even read the letter I sent here? Did you even read the edits of the articles mentioned? Isn't pushing Neo-Nazism (or Chrisitan Identity theology) considered anti-Semitic anymore? Or is that now Ok? People, read the material he keeps shoving in the articles! He is totally fabricating Jewish beliefs, and then attacking Jews for these non-existent beliefs. READ THE FULL TEXT OF WHAT HE ADDED. What about this is so hard to understand? RK __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

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Re: WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 3, Issue 5 (Robert's message)
by Brian Corr 02 Oct '03

02 Oct '03

Am I in some sort of parallel universe? I just sent out the entire article that (I believe) Robert referred to where HE snipped out sentences and phrases out of context. Also, RK posted this to the Talk page a few minutes ago: "Didn't anyone notice the red flag terms? Only Christian Identity adherents and members of he Ku Klux Klan use the term "racialist? In any case, Stevertigo is slandering the entire Jewish community; Jews are '''not''' slandering Chrisitans as "racists", let alone as "racialists". He is fabricating positions, and then attacking Jews for these positions which only exist in his mind. That is called Jew-baiting, and it is anti-Semitic by definition. [[User:RK|RK]] 20:51, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC)" Yet, according to the page history <http://en2.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Christian-Jewish_reconcili…>, RK ADDED THE TEXT WITH THAT WORD IN HIMSELF -- where the word "racialist" is used {10:38, 1 Oct 2003 . . RK (Discussion of racist rant against Jews.)} whilst describing what he claims Stevertigo has said. I don't know where RK gets this from, but now it just looks to me like RK is flat-out lying and attempting to "plant evidence" -- as silly as that seems when anyone can go back and look at the history. Can't someone do something about this escalating conflict! At 09:47 PM 10/1/03 +0000, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:17:37 -0700 (PDT) >From: Robert <rkscience100(a)yahoo.com> > >I am appalled that people are refusing to read the full >text of Stevertigo's comments, and are snipping tiny pieces >of them to prove their points. (i.e. that he is somehow not >anti-Jewish.)

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RE: [WikiEN-l] "Louis Kyu Won Ryu"
by Poor, Edmund W 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

Which Martin do you mean? Surely not user:MyRedDice? Would you like me to e-mail him a request to avoid contacting you for a few days? Ed Poor

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Attacking Jews
by Poor, Edmund W 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

Robert mentioned: > fabricating Jewish beliefs, and then > attacking Jews for these non-existent beliefs Well, that kind of stuff certainly has no place in an encyclopedia article. It's easy to win an argument by putting words in your opponent's mouth. But "standing up" to another Wikipedian might not be as useful as REFRAMING their arguments as POV. Just locate the source of the "offending" statement and mention in the article that White Supremacists or Neo-Nazis or Holocaust Deniers believe (this or that). Why kick up such a fuss? Sorry I didn't plow through the "full text", but that will take more time than I have. Sometimes snipping away is the best strategy, like doctors debriding dead flesh from a wound. Sincerely, Ed Poor

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WikiEN-l October 2003