Tim, I was very excited to get your email! I somehow missed Simon's efforts, and I think it would be a great idea for all of us to sync up (perhaps via hangout?)
I have recently submitted Kartographer https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Kartographer extension (code https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-Kartographer) for security review, and I hope we could deploy it at least to Wikivoyage fairly soon. Kartographer eventually should allow readers to see and interact with the map just like Graph examples https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph/Demo#Vega_2.0_Interactive_Examples .
Kartographer uses mabox.js library https://github.com/mapbox/mapbox.js/, which includes Leaflet. Using mapbox.js will allow editors to add styled GeoJSON https://github.com/mapbox/simplestyle-spec/tree/master/1.1.0 directly to wikipedia pages - example https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Kartographer#Usage_Ideas. Also worth mentioning is the new feature https://github.com/kartotherian/kartotherian/blob/master/README.md#markers I added to Kartotherian - an ability to generate pushpin images of any Maki symbol in any color (example https://maps.wikimedia.org/v4/marker/pin-l-rail-metro+007800@2x.png).
Kartographer should allow editors to customize map for each article. The big remaining issue is the server-side rendering - we can already generate static images, but we must be able to generate them with the extra GeoJSON layers. It seems leaflet/mapbox.js do not support node.js headless rendering. I saw the leaflet-headless https://github.com/jieter/leaflet-headless project, but it might require some work to use it with mapbox.js. So any help with this would be great.
Now to the points from your email: * Style goals task https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113912 is open, we should discuss how to work on it * Transportation POIs was a request from Wikivoyage community. I feel they should be at least reduced in size and restyled - should be easy enough using Mapbox Studio, but I am very bad at visual designing - any patches are welcome. * Mobile Android app just added maps, but they use the base layer plus add pushpins for Wikipedia articles. Eventually I hope they will be able to show maps as part of the articles, with the extra layers. * Simon map is an awesome effort, and we should figure out how to bring it from wmflabs to production - otherwise we won't be able to use it for Wikipedia traffic - the virtual servers won't be able to support it, and it is not safe from security perspective. * Multilingual maps are a huge request, so seriously doubt it in 2 months. WMDE has graciously offered one of their engineers, Johannes, to work on Mapnik. He already fixed a very long standing RTL font rendering bug, and hopefully he will be able to figure out how to add HSTORE storage to Mapnik. Once done, it will be simple to add all languages to the vector tiles, and to pick what to render at the last second. * We cannot show maps to any Wikipedia users as part of the articles because we don't have the server capacity for that yet. But, you can easily switch the geohack template (GPS coords in the upper right corner) to use our new maps, just like ruwiki did, by modifying GeoTemplate https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BD:GeoTemplate and GeoHack.js https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:GeoHack.js (these are ruwiki, but you can do the same for dewiki, enwiki, etc). As always, this is up to the community and not WMF, thus I didn't do it myself. Switching ruwiki geohack quadrupled our traffic http://searchdata.wmflabs.org/maps/. But geohack is obviously a stopgap measure - once we have more capacity, I hope we can use Kartographer extension on all Wikipedias. * I'm fairly happy with the performance - all maps are served via 2 varnish caching servers + 4 backend servers. For full production, we will need 4 varnish servers in each of the 4 data centers. That should significantly improve performance for many regions. * A still big open question is how to add large external databases to Wikipedia. OSM database required huge efforts, but we shouldn't have to do this every time we add a new db. No solution for this yet. One option is to set up a well understood API on your database, and let Kartographer pick up that data? * We already generate a un-labeled map (use /osm/ instead of /osm-intl/ ) - this can help with label collusion. * Priorities is a great question :) This quarter we were primarily concentrating on community feedback and adaption - which has been going great (maps on android, geo hack, wikivoyage). The next quarter we should start doing more integration and expansion, assuming we can get our hands on some servers.
== What can you help with == * Design a new better map Wikipedia-specific style * Design a new better WebGL map Wikipedia-specific style * Help improve SQL for vector tile generation (many bugs there) * Help making mapbox.js run in node.js * Gather and outline maps usage scenarios (product manager role) * Expose your data via an API, and consume it via Kartographer * Add more capabilities to Kartographer, e.g. spinning globe, etc * Something else?
Ping me with any questions or ideas!
On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Tim Alder tim@alder-digital.de wrote:
Hello Yuri, I'm glad that Simon (in CC) starts to create a new leaflet-version of the map that we want to include inside Wikipedia [1]. Daniel Schwen is in CC as developer of the WikiMiniAtlas.
I believe the most things we can do in a community-driven process, but there are some things where the WMF can perhaps help: *Some design advice for Simon's map would be nice. What do you think about the map? (The interactive Icons and the background map have to work together, in the moment are e.g. the train station icons on the background in the same color space like the icon above. Perhaps you can re-color the train station or remove them. Especial the tram stations seems not so important for me and could be removed in my eyes.) *What features should we really have? *What can we do to be usable in the mobile Wikipedia version or the app? *What's the status of multilingual map tiles. Is there a chance to have it available in 2 months or so? *We know that only a promile of the Wikipedia-readers are using the map. Do you see a chance that we get some advertising for it. I mean a larger icon or for some time a little hint or a pop-up of the map for some percent of the readers or so could help.
How happy are you in the moment with the render stack and the servers? Do you think there will some problems with the performance to deliver tiles?
My Wikipedia-coordinates are in the Toollabs-OSM-database "gis" in tables "wp_coords_red0", for each request I generate a new Geojson for individual window of view. Do you think it would make more sense to try to reder this data in vector tiles? Compared with OSM this data volume is so little that we don't need hstore for it. I believe the benefit could be to avoid collisions with other label and make it more consistent during panning the map. It could be also interesting to really render the labels in each different language as clickable labels. What do you think? Could you help with rendering?
Did WMF change the priorities for maps?
Best regards, Tim alias Kolossos
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/wiwosm/osm-gadget-leaflet/#/?lang=de&article=B... Github: https://github.com/simon04/osm-gadget-leaflet/
Hello Yuri, if you look on the updated version of the map from Simon[1] you can see that we use now text labels for Wikipedia entries.
This is a design element from the WikiMiniAtlas and I think it has an positiv effect for the user to set the visual focus on Wikipedia content. It's also the aim to look different that google maps and it's a quick (and dirty) way to multilingual maps. ;-)
The problem we have now is, that we have on zommlevels that are on Country level tons of duplications because we have the Wikipedia-label and the Text from OSM background. If we only switch to a background style I would miss useful informations from OSM like street names. So it would be interesting to discuse if we could get an map where objects with an Wikipedia/Wikidata tag are transparent. We can also talk about if we can get a vector tiles layer with these objects from my database to use the geojson tiles in Leaflet... I also see a chance that labels are becoming more consitant during panning and zooming in.
So perhaps it would be possible if you could prepair an hangout to talk about this and find a date for it via doodle or so. Europes evening hours would be fine for me, but it's christmas time and the people are busy.
Best regards, Tim alias Kolossos
[1]https://tools.wmflabs.org/wiwosm/osm-gadget-leaflet/#/?lang=en&article=L...
Anyone who wants to participate in this discussion is welcome to join the hangout.
How about next Monday, December 21, 19:00 UTC / 2:00pm EST / 11:00 am Pacific
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:14 PM, Tim Alder tim@alder-digital.de wrote:
Hello Yuri, if you look on the updated version of the map from Simon[1] you can see that we use now text labels for Wikipedia entries.
This is a design element from the WikiMiniAtlas and I think it has an positiv effect for the user to set the visual focus on Wikipedia content. It's also the aim to look different that google maps and it's a quick (and dirty) way to multilingual maps. ;-)
The problem we have now is, that we have on zommlevels that are on Country level tons of duplications because we have the Wikipedia-label and the Text from OSM background. If we only switch to a background style I would miss useful informations from OSM like street names. So it would be interesting to discuse if we could get an map where objects with an Wikipedia/Wikidata tag are transparent. We can also talk about if we can get a vector tiles layer with these objects from my database to use the geojson tiles in Leaflet... I also see a chance that labels are becoming more consitant during panning and zooming in.
So perhaps it would be possible if you could prepair an hangout to talk about this and find a date for it via doodle or so. Europes evening hours would be fine for me, but it's christmas time and the people are busy.
Best regards, Tim alias Kolossos
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/wiwosm/osm-gadget-leaflet/#/?lang=en&article=L...
Update: If you want to discuss maps, please join this hangout https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/wikimedia.org/yastrakhan
Monday, December 21, 19:00 UTC / 2:00pm EST / 11:00 am Pacific
If you have any problems connecting, or if you want to talk at a different time, email me directly at yuri@wikimedia.org
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrakhan@wikimedia.org wrote:
Anyone who wants to participate in this discussion is welcome to join the hangout.
How about next Monday, December 21, 19:00 UTC / 2:00pm EST / 11:00 am Pacific
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:14 PM, Tim Alder tim@alder-digital.de wrote:
Hello Yuri, if you look on the updated version of the map from Simon[1] you can see that we use now text labels for Wikipedia entries.
This is a design element from the WikiMiniAtlas and I think it has an positiv effect for the user to set the visual focus on Wikipedia content. It's also the aim to look different that google maps and it's a quick (and dirty) way to multilingual maps. ;-)
The problem we have now is, that we have on zommlevels that are on Country level tons of duplications because we have the Wikipedia-label and the Text from OSM background. If we only switch to a background style I would miss useful informations from OSM like street names. So it would be interesting to discuse if we could get an map where objects with an Wikipedia/Wikidata tag are transparent. We can also talk about if we can get a vector tiles layer with these objects from my database to use the geojson tiles in Leaflet... I also see a chance that labels are becoming more consitant during panning and zooming in.
So perhaps it would be possible if you could prepair an hangout to talk about this and find a date for it via doodle or so. Europes evening hours would be fine for me, but it's christmas time and the people are busy.
Best regards, Tim alias Kolossos
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/wiwosm/osm-gadget-leaflet/#/?lang=en&article=L...
Thank you everyone who participated! A few ideas discussed, please add if i missed anything:
* Get more involvement with OSM community mailing lists * Use "osm" instead of "osm-intl" layer as the base, but bring in the street names * Evaluate migration of WIWOSM's frontend to Simon's code, with the following merge in into Kartographer extension * Evaluate migration of WIWOSM database to production servers * Use Wikiminiatlas's label placing logic in Kartographer * Wait until Mapnik hstore support for multi-lingual maps * Would love to get a wiki-specific map design
Here's a copy of the chat we had running - I cleaned it up a bit. This is mostly for us to remember the posted links.
### Jo Hannes WIWOSM
### Max Semenik https://github.com/aiomaster/WIWOSM ?
### Jo Hannes Do you use wikidata tags on the OSM objects?
### Blake Girardot Here are two relevant OSM wiki links, not sure how up to date they are, just for background or information. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WIWOSM
### Yuri Astrakhan http://vem.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page
### Blake Girardot http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Wikipedia Is there outreach to the OSM email lists?
### Yuri Astrakhan https://github.com/kartotherian/osm-bright.tm2source
### Max Semenik https://github.com/kartotherian/osm-bright.tm2source/blob/master/data.yml#L4...
### Blake Girardot Yes, that is true We had long discussion about it in May on Tagging list I think most are open to the idea
### Max Semenik And I was one of bottery proponents in it:)
### Jo Hannes I had already started with that...
### Blake Girardot I just see very little mention of wiwosm at all, announcments in 2012, but not much since.
### Jo Hannes adding streets and where their names come from yes, better to get it right for all languages I will, but don't want to interrupt the flow of the conversation. Mostly listening in. Very interestting
### Yuri Astrakhan https://maps.wikimedia.org/?s=osm
### Daniel Schwen Sounds like a compromise worth pursuing
### Yuri Astrakhan https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Kartographer
### Blake Girardot Thank you very much, it was very interesting
### Yuri Astrakhan https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kartenwerkstatt/Positions...
### Blake Girardot My only suggestion is more outreach on the OSM lists for collaboration. osm-talk, osm-tagging or osm-dev, might find more help etc. maybe even the mapbox people. I apologize if you already have and I have just missed it, I am not on osm-dev
### Daniel Schwen Good point about the two use cases the popup will have to be general but the embedded map must be *very* customizable
### Blake Girardot I see. interesting 700k wikipedia tags current v. 40k wiki data in OSM according to taginfo oh wow, me too the josm plugin sounds great
### Daniel Schwen Ok, guys, I have to go! Interesting to see this gaining momentum. I will follow this, keep me in the loop.
### Blake Girardot Yes we do
### Jo Hannes cu later oh, I was saying bye to Daniel aware of the potential for privacy ivnasion
### Blake Girardot Thank you very much everyone
On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 5:50 AM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrakhan@wikimedia.org wrote:
Update: If you want to discuss maps, please join this hangout https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/wikimedia.org/yastrakhan
Monday, December 21, 19:00 UTC / 2:00pm EST / 11:00 am Pacific
If you have any problems connecting, or if you want to talk at a different time, email me directly at yuri@wikimedia.org
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Yuri Astrakhan <yastrakhan@wikimedia.org
wrote:
Anyone who wants to participate in this discussion is welcome to join the hangout.
How about next Monday, December 21, 19:00 UTC / 2:00pm EST / 11:00 am Pacific
On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:14 PM, Tim Alder tim@alder-digital.de wrote:
Hello Yuri, if you look on the updated version of the map from Simon[1] you can see that we use now text labels for Wikipedia entries.
This is a design element from the WikiMiniAtlas and I think it has an positiv effect for the user to set the visual focus on Wikipedia content. It's also the aim to look different that google maps and it's a quick (and dirty) way to multilingual maps. ;-)
The problem we have now is, that we have on zommlevels that are on Country level tons of duplications because we have the Wikipedia-label and the Text from OSM background. If we only switch to a background style I would miss useful informations from OSM like street names. So it would be interesting to discuse if we could get an map where objects with an Wikipedia/Wikidata tag are transparent. We can also talk about if we can get a vector tiles layer with these objects from my database to use the geojson tiles in Leaflet... I also see a chance that labels are becoming more consitant during panning and zooming in.
So perhaps it would be possible if you could prepair an hangout to talk about this and find a date for it via doodle or so. Europes evening hours would be fine for me, but it's christmas time and the people are busy.
Best regards, Tim alias Kolossos
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/wiwosm/osm-gadget-leaflet/#/?lang=en&article=L...