Hi!
I am forwarding a discussion that I started with the people from Europeana
on the metadata templates for maps. I would like to get your opinions about
what should we cater for in the maps metadata template.
I am repeating Dan's points:
1. which metadata attributes would need to be stored?
2. is there a mediawiki template on commons that currently handles those
metadata attributes?
a. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Geocoding
b. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Location
c. if not, how do we introduce a new template?
3. do we bring this additional functionality into current scope or later?
a. what type of ui would be needed to add in the functionality?
Tim might have good arguments based on how he has handled metadata in a
partnership with a maps GLAM in the MapWarper? Why should some information
be omitted? Should the community decide or should we take standards into
account? Which ones?
Cheers,
Susanna
2013/5/30 Tuszynski, Jaroslaw W. <JAROSLAW.W.TUSZYNSKI(a)saic.com>
> Hi all,****
>
> ** **
>
> A standard, way of geolocating maps involves use of subpages with KML
> code. See for example
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dayton,_Indiana_1878.png and
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dayton,_Indiana_1878.png/overlay.kml. There was not a whole lot of people creating those KML’s and the software
> often does not like the subpages of files, but the infrastructure is there
> ready to use. If there was more interest in using them we could discuss
> some improvements to the system. We could also streamline kml production
> based on available data. Most current files are created using
> North/South/East/West edges and possible rotation. It might be more
> convenient to use coordinates of 4 corners, which is a format also
> supported by KML. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Another possibility would be to use Template:GeoPolygon, or both. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Are there any other fields specific to maps that are not template:Artwork?
> We could always upload a few sample images by hand (or pick existing ones)
> and ask community for help on formatting metadata, which would be than used
> as a template (using non Wikipedia meaning of the word) for the other
> uploads. That way we can easily see what are the possible improvements to
> Commons templates (using Wikipedia meaning of the word).****
>
> ** **
>
> We could also create a specialized template for maps, which could be just
> extension of Artwork template. But it would be the best to avoid that if
> not necessary. Rarely used templates tend to get little attention and
> maintenance. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Jarek T.****
>
> User:jarekt****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Maarten Dammers [mailto:maarten@mdammers.nl]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:20 PM
> *To:* Susanna Ånäs
> *Cc:* David Haskiya; dan entous; Valentine Charles; Tuszynski, Jaroslaw W.
>
> *Subject:* Re: About the template for maps****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi David and Susanna,
>
> Like what I said on the hackathon: I generally like to get improve
> existing template instead of forking them.
> The whole location metadata is something you need to keep separate anyway,
> it would be a mess to try to fit that in the same template. I think in the
> long run this data needs to end up at Wikidata.
>
> Maarten
>
> Ps. Put Jarek on the cc.
>
> Op 29-5-2013 20:08, Susanna Ånäs schreef:****
>
> Hi all, ****
>
> ** **
>
> I am willing to gather more information from especially our map curator,
> plus perhaps our contact in the Land Survey regarding the simplest form of
> adequate metadata for maps. With Tim Alder we discussed that we do need at
> least the bounding box for the map, if it's available, though only after
> the map has a location. Realizing also that none of the existing templates
> for location only are perfect for our purpose.****
>
> ** **
>
> Please include relevant people in the discussion!****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,****
>
> Susanna****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> 2013/5/29 David Haskiya <David.Haskiya(a)kb.nl>****
>
> Hi Susanna,
> We gave up on trying to change/extend the default Artwork template (or any
> other template) as the community indicated that would not be a welcome or
> easy thing to do. So we use the default Book, Photo, Artwork and Species
> templates. Our contact was http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jarektwho is knowledgeable, friendly and constructive. I think we the more
> insider position you and Maarten have it should be possible to get support
> for a new template - I don't understand Wikimedia Common dynamics very well
> though. De-facto it looks like Artwork is the template used for historical
> maps.
>
> If you and Maarten as part of your project create a specific Map template
> or a specific Artwork-Map template then adding it to our tool as a target
> template should be simple (unless it deviates strongly from the existing
> templates).
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
> ---
> Product Developer
> www.europeana.eu
>
> Phone: +31 (0)70 3140 696
> Mobile: +31 (0)64 217 2542
> Email: david.haskiya(a)kb.nl
> Skype: davidhaskiya****
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dan entous [mailto:d_entous@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: woensdag 29 mei 2013 13:29
> > To: Susanna Ånäs
> > Cc: David Haskiya; Valentine Charles
> > Subject: Re: About the template for maps
> >
> > hi susanna,
> >
> > i'm including david haskiya and valentine charles in this response so
> they
> > can also see your request and answer your questions as well.
> >
> > artwork template
> > ----------------
> > valentine had direct contact with someone involved with the artwork
> > template. i don't know if she kept notes or email threads regarding the
> > discussion. hopefully she or david can give you feedback in that regard.
> >
> >
> > adding map metadata
> > -------------------
> > i'm sure we could sort something out in the tool that would allow you to
> > add map metadata. at first glance, the following points would have to be
> > decided :
> >
> > 1. which metadata attributes would need to be stored?
> >
> > 2. is there a mediawiki template on commons that currently handles those
> > metadata attributes?
> > a. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Geocoding
> > b. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Location
> > c. if not, how do we introduce a new template? - maarten dammers might
> > know this process best
> >
> > 3. do we bring this additional functionality into current scope or later?
> > a. what type of ui would be needed to add in the functionality?
> >
> >
> > with kind regards,
> > dan
> >
> > sent from my mind to yours
> > --------------------------
> > (function signature() {
> > return [
> > 'dan entous',
> > 't. +31 (20) 684.5005',
> > 'm. +31 (64) 024.6187'
> > ].join('\n');
> > }());
> >
> > On May 28, 2013, at 1:24 PM, Susanna Ånäs wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Dan,
> > >
> > > In regard to the templete topic we discussed, I could ask some
> > additional questions.
> > >
> > > It was Maarten Dammers' opinion that the Artwork template
> > (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Artwork) is extensive enough
> > to be able to handle maps. The template does not include a possibility of
> > including information about a geographical bounding box. The idea Maarten
> > proposed was to use another template for geodata in addition to the
> > Artwork template. Now the tool does not support this.
> > >
> > > I also learned that you had discussed about extending the Artwork
> > template in order to accommodate better to existing standards. Do you
> > think you could find a way for me to follow that discussion?
> > >
> > > My specific goal is nevertheless to have a possibility in the GLAM-Wiki
> > tool to have a template (structure) that meets the needs of map GLAMs,
> > that it is enough standards compliant for that, and that it includes all
> > necessary fields. When I discussed the metadata with the Antti Rainio
> from
> > the Land Survey in Finland, he stated that the need of the INSPIRE are
> too
> > complicated and a more flexible structure would be better, based on
> Dublin
> > Core for example.
> > >
> > > Hope to continue discussion.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Susanna
> > >
> > > I have now been able to register in the tool :)
> > >
> > >
> > > 2013/4/25 dan entous <d_entous(a)yahoo.com>
> > > hi susanna,
> > >
> > > i just added you to the wiki. you should get an e-mail with a temporary
> > password. thereafter you should be able to test out the tool. just as a
> > reminder, the tool may change very now and then as we're still in
> > development, but you should be able to test it out in any case.
> > >
> > >
> > > with kind regards,
> > > dan
> > >
> > > sent from my mind to yours
> > > --------------------------
> > > (function signature() {
> > > return [
> > > 'dan entous',
> > > 't. +31 (20) 684.5005',
> > > 'm. +31 (64) 024.6187'
> > > ].join('\n');
> > > }());
> > >
> > > On Apr 25, 2013, at 9:59 AM, Susanna Ånäs wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I would like to request for access to test the tools.
> > > >
> > > > Susanna Ånäs
> > > > User: Susannaanas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Susanna Ånäs
> > > > Wikimedia Suomi
> > > > GLAM - tiedotus - yhteistyö
> > > >
> > > > Puhelin: +358 40 557 8039
> > > > Sähköposti: susanna.anas(a)wikimedia.fi
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Suomi -blogi on aloitettu! Seuraa meitä Twitterissä
> > @WMFinland tai Facebookissa. Liity jäseneksi!
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Glamtools mailing list
> > > > Glamtools(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glamtools
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Susanna Ånäs
> > > Wikimedia Suomi
> > > GLAM - tiedotus - yhteistyö
> > >
> > > Puhelin: +358 40 557 8039
> > > Sähköposti: susanna.anas(a)wikimedia.fi
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Suomi -blogi on aloitettu! Seuraa meitä Twitterissä
> @WMFinland
> > tai Facebookissa. Liity jäseneksi!****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> -- ****
>
> *Susanna Ånäs*
> Wikimedia Suomi <http://fi.wikimedia.org/wiki/Etusivu> ****
>
> GLAM <http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM> – tiedotus – yhteistyö
>
> Puhelin: +358 40 557 8039
> Sähköposti: susanna.anas(a)wikimedia.fi****
>
> ** **
>
> Wikimedia Suomi <http://blog.wikimedia.fi/> -blogi on aloitettu! Seuraa
> meitä Twitterissä @ <https://twitter.com/WMFinland>WMFinland<https://twitter.com/WMFinland>tai
> Facebookissa <https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaSuomi>. Liity jäseneksi!<http://fi.wikimedia.org/wiki/Liity_j%C3%A4seneksi>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
--
*Susanna Ånäs*
Wikimedia Suomi <http://fi.wikimedia.org/wiki/Etusivu>
GLAM <http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM> – tiedotus – yhteistyö
Puhelin: +358 40 557 8039
Sähköposti: susanna.anas(a)wikimedia.fi
Wikimedia Suomi <http://blog.wikimedia.fi/> -blogi on aloitettu! Seuraa
meitä Twitterissä @
<https://twitter.com/WMFinland>WMFinland<https://twitter.com/WMFinland>tai
Facebookissa <https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaSuomi>. Liity
jäseneksi!<http://fi.wikimedia.org/wiki/Liity_j%C3%A4seneksi>
We have different needs at different stages of the process. Please add and
correct
1. Upload with the GlamWIKI tool and storage as image in the Commons
- Generally bibliographic data, sometimes includes information about
location (what kind?)
2. Storage after georeferencing. Data in Wikidata or attached to the file
in Commons? New information:
- Georeference control points (coordinates vs pixels)
- Geographic bounding box of the new rectified image?
- Stored, rectified image file? Should it be generated and stored?
3. Export to different file formats, on-the-fly?
- KML, GeoTIFF...
Please note that I have only general knowledge of some of the technologies,
so this was just to structure. I am cc:ing Lesley Kadish, who works with
the Finnish National Archives on the georeferencing project, map curator at
the Minnesota Historical Society
Susanna
2013/5/31 David Haskiya <David.Haskiya(a)kb.nl>
> ** **
>
> Hi,****
>
> In the GLAMwiki toolset project we have been told that storing XML (like
> e.g. KML) as files is an unacceptable safety risk. And so we’re refactoring
> the code to use the ContentHandler.****
>
> ** **
>
> I’m unsure if this applies to also user created KML-files but something to
> be aware of.****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,****
>
> David ****
>
> ** **
>
> ---
> Product Developer
> www.europeana.eu
>
> Phone: +31 (0)70 3140 696****
>
> ****Mobile****: +31 (0)64 217 2542
> Email: david.haskiya(a)kb.nl
> Skype: davidhaskiya****
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Tuszynski, Jaroslaw W. [mailto:JAROSLAW.W.TUSZYNSKI@saic.com]
> *Sent:* donderdag 30 mei 2013 20:11
> *To:* Tim Alder; Map integration
> *Cc:* Susanna Ånäs; Valentine Charles; dan entous; David Haskiya
> *Subject:* RE: [Maps-l] Wikimaps: About the template for maps****
>
> ** **
>
> I just wrote short program in MATLAB (my favorite programing language) to
> create KMLs based on 3 or more anchor points with known x/y coordinates and
> latitude/longitude. See
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Geocoding/Overlay#Create_kml_in_M…. Similar codes can be written in other languages, and anchor points can be
> provided by using image annotator with links to geocoded wikipedia
> articles, see for example
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF._M%C3%BCllhaupt%27s…. With 3 or more such image notes there should be enough information on the
> HTML of file description page to automatically create KML file.****
>
> ** **
>
> Now I noticed that current solution of storing KML files in subpages of
> files is not well supported by the MediaWiki software as configured on
> Wikimedia Commons. Pages from "Category:Geocoding overlays<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Geocoding_overlays>"
> often show up on database reports of file pages without files, files with
> no license, etc. MediaWiki also does not seem to support subpages of file
> pages. May be it can be reconfigured somehow, or maybe we should use some
> specialized namespace for the overlays. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Jarek T.****
>
> User:Jarek****
>
> ** **
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Alder [mailto:tim.alder@s2002.tu-chemnitz.de]
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:40 PM
> To: Map integration
> Cc: Susanna Ånäs; Tuszynski, Jaroslaw W.; Valentine Charles; dan entous;
> David Haskiya
> Subject: Re: [Maps-l] Wikimaps: About the template for maps****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks Jarek to remember the old KML-overlay solution (A project of
> User:Dschwen and me from 2007). The KML-solution had very limited features
> to make complex transformation to map an historical map on the actual
> world, but we can use the principle to provide via a template a link to a
> tool that use data from an Wiki subpage.****
>
> ** **
>
> With the KML-solution we could only store lat, lon, 2 values for scaling
> the map and rotation angle. Now I would store a list of matching points
> with x,y in pixel of the map and lat,lon. Would this be ok for Maps-wraper?
> (I'm not an expert in this area.)****
>
> ** **
>
> Like Maarten Dammers I want to make a first rapid hack as a base for the
> final solution.****
>
> ** **
>
> If we know the parameter definition I could hack a template let's say
> "overlay2" that opens the right page in Maps-wraper's map viewer[1]. For
> this it would be nice if Maps-wraper could work with Commons imagenames as
> identifier instead of numbers. Would these be possible?****
>
> ** **
>
> The Maps-wraper should have on the other side an export page for the
> matching parameters so that a user can store it on commons at a subpage.**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> The advantage of the KML-solution was that we don't need any caching
> storage. Now the transformations cost a lot of cpu-time so we need a
> caching of the tiles at maps-wraper.****
>
> ** **
>
> Greetings Tim Alder****
>
> ** **
>
> P.S: I think we should organize the communication so that every mail is
> going directly to everone or we should use only the maps-l mailing list[2].
> So it is confusing. I would prefer the mailing list but don't want to loose
> anyone how is interested. Sussana should decide.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> [1] http://maps-warper.instance-proxy.wmflabs.org/maps/1****
>
> [2] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l****
>
> >** **
>
> > 2013/5/30 Tuszynski, Jaroslaw W. <JAROSLAW.W.TUSZYNSKI(a)saic.com ****
>
> > <mailto:JAROSLAW.W.TUSZYNSKI@saic.com <JAROSLAW.W.TUSZYNSKI(a)saic.com>>>*
> ***
>
> >** **
>
> > Hi all,____****
>
> >** **
>
> > __ __****
>
> >** **
>
> > A standard, way of geolocating maps involves use of subpages with***
> *
>
> > KML code. See for example****
>
> > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dayton,_Indiana_1878.png and*
> ***
>
> >
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dayton,_Indiana_1878.png/overlay.kml
> ****
>
> > . There was not a whole lot of people creating those KML’s and the**
> **
>
> > software often does not like the subpages of files, but the****
>
> > infrastructure is there ready to use. If there was more interest in*
> ***
>
> > using them we could discuss some improvements to the system. We****
>
> > could also streamline kml production based on available data. Most**
> **
>
> > current files are created using North/South/East/West edges and****
>
> > possible rotation. It might be more convenient to use coordinates of
> ****
>
> > 4 corners, which is a format also supported by KML. ____****
>
> >** **
>
> > __ __****
>
> >** **
>
> > Another possibility would be to use Template:GeoPolygon, or both. **
> **
>
> > ____****
>
> >** **
>
> > __ __****
>
> >** **
>
> > Are there any other fields specific to maps that are not****
>
> > template:Artwork? We could always upload a few sample images by hand
> ****
>
> > (or pick existing ones) and ask community for help on formatting****
>
> > metadata, which would be than used as a template (using non****
>
> > Wikipedia meaning of the word) for the other uploads. That way we***
> *
>
> > can easily see what are the possible improvements to Commons****
>
> > templates (using Wikipedia meaning of the word).____****
>
> >** **
>
> > __ __****
>
> >** **
>
> > We could also create a specialized template for maps, which could be
> ****
>
> > just extension of Artwork template. But it would be the best to****
>
> > avoid that if not necessary. Rarely used templates tend to get****
>
> > little attention and maintenance. ____****
>
> >** **
>
> > __ __****
>
> >** **
>
> > Jarek T.____****
>
> >** **
>
> > User:jarekt____****
>
> >** **
>
> ** **
>
--
*Susanna Ånäs*
Wikimedia Suomi <http://fi.wikimedia.org/wiki/Etusivu>
GLAM <http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM> – tiedotus – yhteistyö
Puhelin: +358 40 557 8039
Sähköposti: susanna.anas(a)wikimedia.fi
Wikimedia Suomi <http://blog.wikimedia.fi/> -blogi on aloitettu! Seuraa
meitä Twitterissä @
<https://twitter.com/WMFinland>WMFinland<https://twitter.com/WMFinland>tai
Facebookissa <https://www.facebook.com/WikimediaSuomi>. Liity
jäseneksi!<http://fi.wikimedia.org/wiki/Liity_j%C3%A4seneksi>
Hi folks,
Just a quick introduction.
I am also involved with historical maps, OpenStreetMap and the OHM
project in general
I'm also the developer behind mapwarper.net - I've chatted with
Maarten and a couple of others from wikimedia in the past at assorted
conferences about effectively putting mapwarper on the wikimedia
toolservers - and am glad that this project seems to be gathering some
interested again.
Please do count me in for any help you may need to install this code
(https://github.com/timwaters/mapwarper) , any questions and anything
else you may encounter if you choose to go ahead with using mapwarper.
Cheers,
Tim Waters
