Hello, I wondering why the new template support the old KML-overlay. The problems with our KML-solution from 2007 are that the user need special software (Google Earth) and that the solution supports only affine coordinate transformation. Especially for historical maps I believe we need more complex transformations especially for handling in inaccuracy. But we can use mapswraper also for geocoding aerial photos. So the solution is much more flexible. It's also important that the interface is as simple as possible so there should be one click to come to an useful, selfexplaining application. So perhaps I will use the day to modify the template.
But maps-wraper need some modification like I mention before. *Uploading file from Commons over an URL parameter (!!) *replacing image ID number by image name from commons (!) *remove User-accounts or usage of O-Auth/OpenID to work with the Wikimedia-Account (!!)
I got from Susanna the question where to store the parameters: At the beginning I though about Maps-wraper more as an external webservice so it would be necessary to store all parameters additionally in Commons. Now I understand we have maps-wraper inside our own environment (labs), so we have control over it and have different backups of the parameters. So now I believe it's could be more easily and more consistent to store the parameter only inside maps-wraper. Later a bot can transfer the parameter perhaps to Commons/WikiDATA, but this is not necessary for the first hack.
With parameters I mean a list of matching points. Also if I know that for modern maps that are generated by users in a GIS-system, it would be nice to support GDAL http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.html for transformations. But I don't believe that maps-wraper support it.
Greetings Tim
Hi folks,
Tim, it's map-warper not map-wraper :-)
However you are not the first in making this mistake and I really like "MapWrapper" the name, and a few groups in India think that this is a better way to think about how a map wraps around the world, as opposed to maps warping.
On 21 June 2013 09:56, Tim Alder tim.alder@s2002.tu-chemnitz.de wrote:
Hello, I wondering why the new template support the old KML-overlay.
I think i'm missing the point here, but the warper has a KML output which works nicely in google earth but the subset of kml support in google maps is very poor, (and non existent in their new maps offering)
But maps-wraper need some modification like I mention before. *Uploading file from Commons over an URL parameter (!!) *replacing image ID number by image name from commons (!) *remove User-accounts or usage of O-Auth/OpenID to work with the Wikimedia-Account (!!)
All great ideas.
With parameters I mean a list of matching points. Also if I know that for modern maps that are generated by users in a GIS-system, it would be nice to support GDAL <http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.**htmlhttp://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.html> for transformations. But I don't believe that maps-wraper support it.
The warper actually only uses GDAL (gdalwarp and gdal_translate) to do the transformations.
Hello, I learn now: Wraps is something to eat, so it's better to use warper.
Am 21.06.2013 14:39, schrieb Tim Waters:
Hi folks,
Tim, it's map-warper not map-wraper :-)
However you are not the first in making this mistake and I really like "MapWrapper" the name, and a few groups in India think that this is a better way to think about how a map wraps around the world, as opposed to maps warping.
On 21 June 2013 09:56, Tim Alder <tim.alder@s2002.tu-chemnitz.de mailto:tim.alder@s2002.tu-chemnitz.de> wrote:
Hello, I wondering why the new template support the old KML-overlay.I think i'm missing the point here, but the warper has a KML output which works nicely in google earth but the subset of kml support in google maps is very poor, (and non existent in their new maps offering)
We had 2007 a solution in Commons that use KML and Google Earth for maps overlay, you can found it at Template:Overlay. But it had lots of limitation as it supports only positioning,scaling and rotation. Maps-warpers kml-export is much more flexible because it based on an transformated/warped image. So I would keep the old kml overlay unchange but would support for the new system only maps-warper.
With parameters I mean a list of matching points. Also if I know that for modern maps that are generated by users in a GIS-system, it would be nice to support GDAL <http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.__html <http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.html>> for transformations. But I don't believe that maps-wraper support it.The warper actually only uses GDAL (gdalwarp and gdal_translate) to do the transformations.
What I mean here was that it would be nice if I could say that my map is produced in Projection xy and give the coordinates at the border or so, instead of using tons of matching points. But for the beginning I believe we can life with matching points.
Greetings Tim alias Kolossos
Hi all,
Some summaries, correct if I have understood poorly:
The template - The use of KML in the Template:Map does not gain support. But from the underlying (bounding box, coordinate point) data it is possible to generate KML as well as other formats. Should we require to make KML less apparent, especially not encourage to use it in subpages? - Georeferencing data can be stored in MapWarper, as the data resides on WMF servers. Do you see a need to store that data along with the image in Commons? - If we settle on the principles of the Template:Map, it can be added to the GLAM-wiki toolset for mass uploads of maps to the Commons. Please have a look at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Map and comment in http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Map.
MapWarper - Tim A. brought up the other way of georeferencing more modern maps: identifying corner coordinates and giving a map projection to match the coordinates. I have been thinking about this as well. We should place it on the list of desired features, but probably we will not have enough time to apply it in the first phase. - Should we point to maps in the Commons or do we make copies of them when we work with them in the WM MapWarper? Tim A. suggests we upload a file from Commons over an URL parameter and that the MapWarper should use image names from commons. This means the image is a copy, right? But shares the same ID (name). - Are we able to conduct any searches at this stage? Such as finding maps on a map? - Replace the authentication procedure with usage of O-Auth/OpenID to work with the Wikimedia-Account. If we do not have the time, is it ok to use the test ID? - MapWarper transformation uses GDAL libraries. - Susanna has drawn some quick wireframes. Please comment, and we can continue based on your comments.
-- Susanna
2013/6/21 Tim Alder tim.alder@s2002.tu-chemnitz.de
Hello, I learn now: Wraps is something to eat, so it's better to use warper.
Am 21.06.2013 14:39, schrieb Tim Waters:
Hi folks,
Tim, it's map-warper not map-wraper :-)
However you are not the first in making this mistake and I really like "MapWrapper" the name, and a few groups in India think that this is a better way to think about how a map wraps around the world, as opposed to maps warping.
On 21 June 2013 09:56, Tim Alder <tim.alder@s2002.tu-chemnitz.**detim.alder@s2002.tu-chemnitz.de <mailto:tim.alder@s2002.tu-**chemnitz.de tim.alder@s2002.tu-chemnitz.de>> wrote:
Hello, I wondering why the new template support the old KML-overlay.I think i'm missing the point here, but the warper has a KML output which works nicely in google earth but the subset of kml support in google maps is very poor, (and non existent in their new maps offering)
We had 2007 a solution in Commons that use KML and Google Earth for maps overlay, you can found it at Template:Overlay. But it had lots of limitation as it supports only positioning,scaling and rotation. Maps-warpers kml-export is much more flexible because it based on an transformated/warped image. So I would keep the old kml overlay unchange but would support for the new system only maps-warper.
With parameters I mean a list of matching points. Also if I knowthat for modern maps that are generated by users in a GIS-system, it would be nice to support GDAL <http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.**__html<http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.__html> <http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.**html<http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.html>>>for transformations. But I don't believe that maps-wraper support it.
The warper actually only uses GDAL (gdalwarp and gdal_translate) to do the transformations.
What I mean here was that it would be nice if I could say that my map is
produced in Projection xy and give the coordinates at the border or so, instead of using tons of matching points. But for the beginning I believe we can life with matching points.
Greetings Tim alias Kolossos
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Hello, I add the parameter "warperID" to the template:Map. This parameter produce a link to the tool. So it's now possible to show how easy the usage can be for users.
You can check this at: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Palestine_base_map.svg or https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dresden1750.jpg
A user can go directly from there to a kml-file or we can generate an addition link in Commons.
Greetings Tim
I was always a big fan of the KML-overlays, even with its limited support (Google Earth only), but I have always seen the complicated KML creation process as a main draw-back. There are other issues with old KML-overlays:
· Wikimedia Commons does not understand the concept of file sub-page so those kml files always clog all kind of maintenance lists as broken files http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Database_reports/File_description_pages_without_an_associated_file , files without license, files with no categories http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UncategorizedFiles , etc.
· Affine coordinate transformation is also limiting
Map Warper seems like a good solution, but I think that we should retain as many solutions as possible. May be a field with links to several overlay links tools, like old kml-overlay (Google Earth), map-warper (own OSM), geo-polygon (Google Maps), etc. Any other tools out there I am missing?
Jarek T.
(user:jarekt http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jarekt )
-----Original Message----- From: maps-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:maps-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Tim Alder Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 4:56 AM To: Map integration Subject: Re: [Maps-l] Wikimaps: About the template for maps
Hello,
I wondering why the new template support the old KML-overlay.
The problems with our KML-solution from 2007 are that the user need special software (Google Earth) and that the solution supports only affine coordinate transformation. Especially for historical maps I believe we need more complex transformations especially for handling in inaccuracy. But we can use mapswraper also for geocoding aerial photos.
So the solution is much more flexible. It's also important that the interface is as simple as possible so there should be one click to come to an useful, selfexplaining application.
So perhaps I will use the day to modify the template.
But maps-wraper need some modification like I mention before.
*Uploading file from Commons over an URL parameter (!!) *replacing image ID number by image name from commons (!) *remove User-accounts or usage of O-Auth/OpenID to work with the Wikimedia-Account (!!)
I got from Susanna the question where to store the parameters:
At the beginning I though about Maps-wraper more as an external webservice so it would be necessary to store all parameters additionally in Commons. Now I understand we have maps-wraper inside our own environment (labs), so we have control over it and have different backups of the parameters. So now I believe it's could be more easily and more consistent to store the parameter only inside maps-wraper.
Later a bot can transfer the parameter perhaps to Commons/WikiDATA, but this is not necessary for the first hack.
With parameters I mean a list of matching points. Also if I know that for modern maps that are generated by users in a GIS-system, it would be nice to support GDAL <http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.html http://www.gdal.org/gdalwarp.html > for transformations. But I don't believe that maps-wraper support it.
Greetings Tim
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