Hello everyone,
as many of you will already know, OpenStreetMap has been planning to change its license from CC-BY-SA 2.0 to OdBL 1.0 for a long time now (several years). It appears that the date of the actual change is now approaching fast and that the intended plan[3] suggests that the change will begin on the 27th of March and be complete by the 1st of April.
As, unlike Wikipedia, with its change to CC-BY-SA, OSM so far has not had a clause in the license to switch to a different license, it had to independently and separately ask all of its contributors to relicense their data to the new license.
In a project with more than 200.000 contributors reaching all of them and getting them to agree to a new license is an (near) impossible task. Therefore despite OSM(F)'s best effort to reach as many mappers as possible, obviously not all could be reached and convinced to agree.
As OSMF does not hold the copyright (the individual mappers do), it can only re-license the content for which it has permission and has to delete all other data.
Worldwide currently 2% - 3% of data are affected[1], but for some regions or countries 10% or more of data have to be deleted.
The question for Wikipedia (in the sense of the maps rendered on the toolserver and embedded in a number of language wikipedia's) now is how to handle the license transition?
My suggestion is to freeze the toolserver's openstreetmap database on the 27th and stop all data updates for now. After the dust settles on the license change and the impact of the deleted data become more apparent, one can reevaluate the situation and decide at what point the missing updates are worth more than the deleted data. At that point a fresh import of the OSM database would be necessary after which the updates can resume. My guess would be that it would take a few weeks or perhaps month for the most visible damage to the data to be fixed, but it is very hard to predict this so far. An overview of the current situation can be seen on cleanmap [2], which shows either what the map will look like after the license change, or on badmap which data needs to be removed or modified before the license change.
After the re-import, it will also require a slight adaptation of the attribution to reflect the license change to OdBL. The tiles (which are embedded in Wikipedia) I believe can still be published under CC-BY-SA (it is only the data that is under OdBL, not the produced work) and I don't think it will directly impact (or prevent) any of the current other usage of OpenStreetMap data in Wikipedia. However, I don't know if the Wikimedia legal council has or wants to say anything about it and / or give its OK for continued inclusion?
What do others think? How should the OSM license change and the resulting removal of data from its database be handled in Wikipedia? Do people agree with the above suggestion? Does it have any other consequences? Further thoughts?
Kai
[1] http://odbl.poole.ch/ [2] http://cleanmap.poole.ch/ [3] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Rebuild_Plan [4] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/About_The_License_Change
Hello, for the schedule I would prefer to define a fixture time-span off let's say 2 weeks so we are able to calculate. We can than also say to the people that the updating for tools like WIWOSM we work again after this time. In my eyes it's not so important to present a perfect map, we should present an actual representation of OSM.
Greetings Kolossos
Am 21.03.2012 01:19, schrieb Kai Krueger:
Hello everyone,
as many of you will already know, OpenStreetMap has been planning to change its license from CC-BY-SA 2.0 to OdBL 1.0 for a long time now (several years). It appears that the date of the actual change is now approaching fast and that the intended plan[3] suggests that the change will begin on the 27th of March and be complete by the 1st of April.
As, unlike Wikipedia, with its change to CC-BY-SA, OSM so far has not had a clause in the license to switch to a different license, it had to independently and separately ask all of its contributors to relicense their data to the new license.
In a project with more than 200.000 contributors reaching all of them and getting them to agree to a new license is an (near) impossible task. Therefore despite OSM(F)'s best effort to reach as many mappers as possible, obviously not all could be reached and convinced to agree.
As OSMF does not hold the copyright (the individual mappers do), it can only re-license the content for which it has permission and has to delete all other data.
Worldwide currently 2% - 3% of data are affected[1], but for some regions or countries 10% or more of data have to be deleted.
The question for Wikipedia (in the sense of the maps rendered on the toolserver and embedded in a number of language wikipedia's) now is how to handle the license transition?
My suggestion is to freeze the toolserver's openstreetmap database on the 27th and stop all data updates for now. After the dust settles on the license change and the impact of the deleted data become more apparent, one can reevaluate the situation and decide at what point the missing updates are worth more than the deleted data. At that point a fresh import of the OSM database would be necessary after which the updates can resume. My guess would be that it would take a few weeks or perhaps month for the most visible damage to the data to be fixed, but it is very hard to predict this so far. An overview of the current situation can be seen on cleanmap [2], which shows either what the map will look like after the license change, or on badmap which data needs to be removed or modified before the license change.
After the re-import, it will also require a slight adaptation of the attribution to reflect the license change to OdBL. The tiles (which are embedded in Wikipedia) I believe can still be published under CC-BY-SA (it is only the data that is under OdBL, not the produced work) and I don't think it will directly impact (or prevent) any of the current other usage of OpenStreetMap data in Wikipedia. However, I don't know if the Wikimedia legal council has or wants to say anything about it and / or give its OK for continued inclusion?
What do others think? How should the OSM license change and the resulting removal of data from its database be handled in Wikipedia? Do people agree with the above suggestion? Does it have any other consequences? Further thoughts?
Kai
[1] http://odbl.poole.ch/ [2] http://cleanmap.poole.ch/ [3] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Rebuild_Plan [4] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/About_The_License_Change
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
Hello everyone,
After OSMF was originally wanting to start the license change at the beginning of April, due to technical problems with the redaction process of non relicensed data, it has been delayed till now.
The OSMF has now announced a new schedule [1]. It will begin removing data for which it does not have permission to relicense from CC-BY-SA to ODbL 1.0 this coming Wednesday 11th.
It will happen as a slow process while normal editing of OSM data continues. From a data consumers perspective the removal will look like any normal deletion of data and will be mixed in the minutely / daily diffs with the normal changes. The duration of this process is not yet clear due to the uncertainty caused by the load of the normal edits, but very rough estimates supposedly range from a week to several months, but hopefully it will be completed within a month.
Luckily, worldwide only a little more than 1% of the total current data has to be removed, but regionally this can unfortunately still be a lot more despite all the efforts to minimize the impact.
The question now is how should the wikipedia osm-tile-servers handle this situation?
1) continue as normal, importing the minutely diffs. This has the advantage of staying up to date with all the ongoing mapping efforts, but the disadvantage of degrading the data in areas where the redaction-bot deletes things.
2) Suspend the diff imports during the redaction phase: This allows mappers time to fix some of the damage done during the process, but removes the up-to-dateness of the map.
This affects at least the tileserver run on toolserver.org which serves tiles for the osm gadget for various wikipedias and the WIWOSM project. But depending on when the new tileserver run by the foundation for its mobile project goes into production, it would also need to make this decision. I don't currently know how the mapquest open tiles will handle the situation.
During the redaction period, all data continues to be CC-BY-SA. When the actual cut-over to ODbL will occur is not yet clear, as the timing of the redaction bot is still uncertain but presumably very shortly after it has finished.
Kai
[1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2012-July/063420.html
On 03/22/2012 02:15 AM, Tim Alder wrote:
Hello, for the schedule I would prefer to define a fixture time-span off let's say 2 weeks so we are able to calculate. We can than also say to the people that the updating for tools like WIWOSM we work again after this time. In my eyes it's not so important to present a perfect map, we should present an actual representation of OSM.
Greetings Kolossos
Am 21.03.2012 01:19, schrieb Kai Krueger:
Hello everyone,
as many of you will already know, OpenStreetMap has been planning to change its license from CC-BY-SA 2.0 to OdBL 1.0 for a long time now (several years). It appears that the date of the actual change is now approaching fast and that the intended plan[3] suggests that the change will begin on the 27th of March and be complete by the 1st of April.
As, unlike Wikipedia, with its change to CC-BY-SA, OSM so far has not had a clause in the license to switch to a different license, it had to independently and separately ask all of its contributors to relicense their data to the new license.
In a project with more than 200.000 contributors reaching all of them and getting them to agree to a new license is an (near) impossible task. Therefore despite OSM(F)'s best effort to reach as many mappers as possible, obviously not all could be reached and convinced to agree.
As OSMF does not hold the copyright (the individual mappers do), it can only re-license the content for which it has permission and has to delete all other data.
Worldwide currently 2% - 3% of data are affected[1], but for some regions or countries 10% or more of data have to be deleted.
The question for Wikipedia (in the sense of the maps rendered on the toolserver and embedded in a number of language wikipedia's) now is how to handle the license transition?
My suggestion is to freeze the toolserver's openstreetmap database on the 27th and stop all data updates for now. After the dust settles on the license change and the impact of the deleted data become more apparent, one can reevaluate the situation and decide at what point the missing updates are worth more than the deleted data. At that point a fresh import of the OSM database would be necessary after which the updates can resume. My guess would be that it would take a few weeks or perhaps month for the most visible damage to the data to be fixed, but it is very hard to predict this so far. An overview of the current situation can be seen on cleanmap [2], which shows either what the map will look like after the license change, or on badmap which data needs to be removed or modified before the license change.
After the re-import, it will also require a slight adaptation of the attribution to reflect the license change to OdBL. The tiles (which are embedded in Wikipedia) I believe can still be published under CC-BY-SA (it is only the data that is under OdBL, not the produced work) and I don't think it will directly impact (or prevent) any of the current other usage of OpenStreetMap data in Wikipedia. However, I don't know if the Wikimedia legal council has or wants to say anything about it and / or give its OK for continued inclusion?
What do others think? How should the OSM license change and the resulting removal of data from its database be handled in Wikipedia? Do people agree with the above suggestion? Does it have any other consequences? Further thoughts?
Kai
[1] http://odbl.poole.ch/ [2] http://cleanmap.poole.ch/ [3] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Rebuild_Plan [4] http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/About_The_License_Change
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
The timing couldn't be worse. The Wikimania is starting now and I want to use this event to promote OSM and WIWOSM. But we can not change it.
So I prefer the first way to be up-to-date with WIWOSM.
Greetings Tim
Am 09.07.2012 23:51, schrieb Kai Krueger:
Hello everyone,
After OSMF was originally wanting to start the license change at the beginning of April, due to technical problems with the redaction process of non relicensed data, it has been delayed till now.
The OSMF has now announced a new schedule [1]. It will begin removing data for which it does not have permission to relicense from CC-BY-SA to ODbL 1.0 this coming Wednesday 11th.
It will happen as a slow process while normal editing of OSM data continues. From a data consumers perspective the removal will look like any normal deletion of data and will be mixed in the minutely / daily diffs with the normal changes. The duration of this process is not yet clear due to the uncertainty caused by the load of the normal edits, but very rough estimates supposedly range from a week to several months, but hopefully it will be completed within a month.
Luckily, worldwide only a little more than 1% of the total current data has to be removed, but regionally this can unfortunately still be a lot more despite all the efforts to minimize the impact.
The question now is how should the wikipedia osm-tile-servers handle this situation?
- continue as normal, importing the minutely diffs. This has the
advantage of staying up to date with all the ongoing mapping efforts, but the disadvantage of degrading the data in areas where the redaction-bot deletes things.
- Suspend the diff imports during the redaction phase: This allows
mappers time to fix some of the damage done during the process, but removes the up-to-dateness of the map.
This affects at least the tileserver run on toolserver.org which serves tiles for the osm gadget for various wikipedias and the WIWOSM project. But depending on when the new tileserver run by the foundation for its mobile project goes into production, it would also need to make this decision. I don't currently know how the mapquest open tiles will handle the situation.
During the redaction period, all data continues to be CC-BY-SA. When the actual cut-over to ODbL will occur is not yet clear, as the timing of the redaction bot is still uncertain but presumably very shortly after it has finished.
Kai
[1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2012-July/063420.html
Yes, the timing is a bit unfortunately with respect to wikimania. On the other hand, the whole OSM license change process has been dragging on for years now draining resources, so it is imho good that it is finally soon coming to an end.
The redaction bot has now begun with its edits in Ireland.
One can see the edits it is performing under the list of edits of the account "OSMF redaction account" ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/OSMF%20Redaction%20Account/edits)
Also one can watch general OSM editing activity including the redaction bot with a little java program from http://gpsmid.sourceforge.net/misc/LiveEditMapViewerJ-redaction.jar
Given that the bot has started already, overall it is only about 1% and it will draw over an extended period of time, I am currently leaning towards the first option too.
I.e. I have not stopped the diff importing process on the toolserver and thus all new edits, as well as all deletions from the redaction process should show up in the wikipedia OSM maps within about 15 minutes.
Kai
On 07/10/2012 12:37 PM, Tim Alder wrote:
The timing couldn't be worse. The Wikimania is starting now and I want to use this event to promote OSM and WIWOSM. But we can not change it.
So I prefer the first way to be up-to-date with WIWOSM.
Greetings Tim
Am 09.07.2012 23:51, schrieb Kai Krueger:
Hello everyone,
After OSMF was originally wanting to start the license change at the beginning of April, due to technical problems with the redaction process of non relicensed data, it has been delayed till now.
The OSMF has now announced a new schedule [1]. It will begin removing data for which it does not have permission to relicense from CC-BY-SA to ODbL 1.0 this coming Wednesday 11th.
It will happen as a slow process while normal editing of OSM data continues. From a data consumers perspective the removal will look like any normal deletion of data and will be mixed in the minutely / daily diffs with the normal changes. The duration of this process is not yet clear due to the uncertainty caused by the load of the normal edits, but very rough estimates supposedly range from a week to several months, but hopefully it will be completed within a month.
Luckily, worldwide only a little more than 1% of the total current data has to be removed, but regionally this can unfortunately still be a lot more despite all the efforts to minimize the impact.
The question now is how should the wikipedia osm-tile-servers handle this situation?
- continue as normal, importing the minutely diffs. This has the
advantage of staying up to date with all the ongoing mapping efforts, but the disadvantage of degrading the data in areas where the redaction-bot deletes things.
- Suspend the diff imports during the redaction phase: This allows
mappers time to fix some of the damage done during the process, but removes the up-to-dateness of the map.
This affects at least the tileserver run on toolserver.org which serves tiles for the osm gadget for various wikipedias and the WIWOSM project. But depending on when the new tileserver run by the foundation for its mobile project goes into production, it would also need to make this decision. I don't currently know how the mapquest open tiles will handle the situation.
During the redaction period, all data continues to be CC-BY-SA. When the actual cut-over to ODbL will occur is not yet clear, as the timing of the redaction bot is still uncertain but presumably very shortly after it has finished.
Kai
[1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2012-July/063420.html
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l