In a blog post by Serge Wroclawski, a long time OpenStreetMap contributor and the founder of the OpenStreetMap US organization, outlines reasons why he believes OSM is in trouble.
https://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2018/02/16/osm-is-in-trouble/
A choice quote.
"The first problem that I feel plagues OSM is that the OpenStreetMap Foundation views the mission of the project to provide the world a geographic database, but not geographic services."
See also this thread on the OSM-talk mailing list:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2018-February/080161.html
Yours, Chris Koerner Community Liaison Wikimedia Foundation
Related to this, I wondered if the WMF could be interested in this request for support https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2018/02/19/osmf-request-for-proposals-data-ce...
Regards, Stefano
2018-02-23 18:14 GMT+01:00 Chris Koerner ckoerner@wikimedia.org:
In a blog post by Serge Wroclawski, a long time OpenStreetMap contributor and the founder of the OpenStreetMap US organization, outlines reasons why he believes OSM is in trouble.
https://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2018/02/16/osm-is-in-trouble/
A choice quote.
"The first problem that I feel plagues OSM is that the OpenStreetMap Foundation views the mission of the project to provide the world a geographic database, but not geographic services."
See also this thread on the OSM-talk mailing list:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2018-February/080161.html
Yours, Chris Koerner Community Liaison Wikimedia Foundation
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
On 2/23/2018 10:32 AM, Stefano wrote:
Related to this, I wondered if the WMF could be interested in this request for support https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2018/02/19/osmf-request-for-proposals-data-ce...
One of the core requirements is the data centre is in the EU, for three reasons, and I believe the WMF is entirely in North America.
1. The privacy implications of leaving the EU are complex.
2. This is a data centre move, not starting a new site. Customs charges and the difficulty of physically moving the servers are likely to make outside the EU expensive and very complicated
3. Ping requirements require the site to be in Europe, or near it. A new site wouldn't have this constraint, as it could serve a different role, but this site needs good connectivity for cross-datacentre failover.
If the WMF were interested in supporting with hardware or rack space, I'm sure the OWG would be interested.
The problem is likely to be having hardware in the production network not administered by WMF operations.
OSM's biggest need is for human resources, not computer ones. On the technical side, developers helping with code, people writing documentation, etc. On the non-technical side, people who can write helping out OSMF's Communications Working Group, and other people bringing the skills they have.
The server clusters that the WMF uses are on Wikitech and can be viewed here: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Clusters.
Cheers,
Deb
--
deb tankersley
Program Manager, Engineering
Wikimedia Foundation
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 4:22 PM, Paul Norman penorman@mac.com wrote:
On 2/23/2018 10:32 AM, Stefano wrote:
Related to this, I wondered if the WMF could be interested in this request for support https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2018/02/19/osmf-request-for- proposals-data-centre-2018/
One of the core requirements is the data centre is in the EU, for three reasons, and I believe the WMF is entirely in North America.
The privacy implications of leaving the EU are complex.
This is a data centre move, not starting a new site. Customs charges
and the difficulty of physically moving the servers are likely to make outside the EU expensive and very complicated
- Ping requirements require the site to be in Europe, or near it. A new
site wouldn't have this constraint, as it could serve a different role, but this site needs good connectivity for cross-datacentre failover.
If the WMF were interested in supporting with hardware or rack space, I'm sure the OWG would be interested.
The problem is likely to be having hardware in the production network not administered by WMF operations.
OSM's biggest need is for human resources, not computer ones. On the technical side, developers helping with code, people writing documentation, etc. On the non-technical side, people who can write helping out OSMF's Communications Working Group, and other people bringing the skills they have.
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
I understand that the blog post is part of an established genre of break-up posts with your favored FOSS project, so I am taking it with the appropriate grain of salt. However, I am a full-time cartographer and the post has dissuaded me from getting involved. The hidden gatekeepers are especially troubling.
--Tom
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Deborah Tankersley dtankersley@wikimedia.org wrote:
The server clusters that the WMF uses are on Wikitech and can be viewed here: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Clusters.
Cheers,
Deb
--
deb tankersley
Program Manager, Engineering
Wikimedia Foundation
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 4:22 PM, Paul Norman penorman@mac.com wrote:
On 2/23/2018 10:32 AM, Stefano wrote:
Related to this, I wondered if the WMF could be interested in this request for support
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2018/02/19/osmf-request-for-proposals-data-ce...
One of the core requirements is the data centre is in the EU, for three reasons, and I believe the WMF is entirely in North America.
The privacy implications of leaving the EU are complex.
This is a data centre move, not starting a new site. Customs charges
and the difficulty of physically moving the servers are likely to make outside the EU expensive and very complicated
- Ping requirements require the site to be in Europe, or near it. A new
site wouldn't have this constraint, as it could serve a different role, but this site needs good connectivity for cross-datacentre failover.
If the WMF were interested in supporting with hardware or rack space, I'm sure the OWG would be interested.
The problem is likely to be having hardware in the production network not administered by WMF operations.
OSM's biggest need is for human resources, not computer ones. On the technical side, developers helping with code, people writing documentation, etc. On the non-technical side, people who can write helping out OSMF's Communications Working Group, and other people bringing the skills they have.
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
Hi Tom -
As someone who's been through the wringers with OSM (as is Paul), I think taking things with a grain of salt is good advice to follow.
I would, however, not let the hidden gatekeepers scare you off too too much, depending on what you're interested in. The first reason is that the "hidden" gatekeepers aren't really that hidden. After a few activities, you'll know who they are and possibly understand where they're coming from, even if you disagree. The second reason is that the hidden gatekeeper dynamic applies more in some areas than others.
There are also a ton of ways to get involved with OSM that don't rely on interactions with the OSM org at all. Mapbox and Mapzen (RIP), among others have built on top of the OSM infrastructure and have created amazing products and deliverables using the greater OSM infrastructure.
Who knows? Maybe there's a way to dig in and have some fun?
I think the real tie between Maps on Wikipedia and OSM is how they might be able to draw from the same base data. There's a wealth of value in many of Wikipedia's maps that is trapped in .svg files and no underlying GIS files. If we can work on that angle, there's value to both communities downstream from the source data. That's my 2 cents, anyway.
- Jeff
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 5:56 PM, T Fish tfish@guerillero.net wrote:
I understand that the blog post is part of an established genre of break-up posts with your favored FOSS project, so I am taking it with the appropriate grain of salt. However, I am a full-time cartographer and the post has dissuaded me from getting involved. The hidden gatekeepers are especially troubling.
--Tom
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Deborah Tankersley dtankersley@wikimedia.org wrote:
The server clusters that the WMF uses are on Wikitech and can be viewed here: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Clusters.
Cheers,
Deb
--
deb tankersley
Program Manager, Engineering
Wikimedia Foundation
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 4:22 PM, Paul Norman penorman@mac.com wrote:
On 2/23/2018 10:32 AM, Stefano wrote:
Related to this, I wondered if the WMF could be interested in this request for support
for-proposals-data-centre-2018/
One of the core requirements is the data centre is in the EU, for three reasons, and I believe the WMF is entirely in North America.
The privacy implications of leaving the EU are complex.
This is a data centre move, not starting a new site. Customs charges
and the difficulty of physically moving the servers are likely to make outside the EU expensive and very complicated
- Ping requirements require the site to be in Europe, or near it. A new
site wouldn't have this constraint, as it could serve a different role,
but
this site needs good connectivity for cross-datacentre failover.
If the WMF were interested in supporting with hardware or rack space,
I'm
sure the OWG would be interested.
The problem is likely to be having hardware in the production network
not
administered by WMF operations.
OSM's biggest need is for human resources, not computer ones. On the technical side, developers helping with code, people writing
documentation,
etc. On the non-technical side, people who can write helping out OSMF's Communications Working Group, and other people bringing the skills they have.
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
Maps-l mailing list Maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l
To me the article felt like one of those pieces you could read about Wikipedia in 2008, and largely a sensationalist recount of perennial discussions in OSM. Nothing new under the sun. Maybe I'm too old.
Anyway, it's always good to spark some wider and constructive discussions on the possibly overlooked basics of a large project. Speaking of which:
Paul Norman, 24/02/2018 01:22:
On 2/23/2018 10:32 AM, Stefano wrote:
Related to this, I wondered if the WMF could be interested in this request for support https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2018/02/19/osmf-request-for-proposals-data-ce...
[...] If the WMF were interested in supporting with hardware or rack space, I'm sure the OWG would be interested.
The hardware donation part is probably the easiest one. WMF has long struggled to find an efficient way to give away its extra servers, if I'm not mistaken. https://blog.wikimedia.org/tag/server-donation/
It would be easier if your racks ended up being in EvoSwitch AMS, I suppose. I can't currently see a list of spare/decommissioned servers, but you can contact WMF Site Reliability Engineering (cc some of them).
Federico