Re: [Design] Applicability and necessity of mw-ui-quiet

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Bartosz Dziewoński

3 Apr 2014 3 Apr '14

3:49 p.m.

Since no one answered, let me ask a different question – would anyone oppose if I were to remove the .mw-ui-quiet class? On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Bartosz Dziewoński <matma.rex(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

...

Actually, what is the rationale for having a separate "quiet" style? The one that seems to be given here seems to be the "inverse Fitts' law" [1], but I don't really see how just making a button more bland helps with this. I'd be all for killing it and sticking to a simpler visual convention, just using regular (non-colored) buttons where we'd previously try to use the quiet ones. [1] http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-opposite-of-fitts-law/

(Resending because something ate the previous one.) -- Matma Rex

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Shahyar Ghobadpour

3 Apr 3 Apr

4:38 p.m.

New subject: Applicability and necessity of mw-ui-quiet

A "quieter than normal" button is necessary, I just don't like the current implementation. So, we can't get rid of it just yet. I have a patch going up for review today with an additional type called sleeper buttons, which are somewhere between normal and quiet. --Shahyar On Apr 3, 2014 10:49 AM, "Bartosz Dziewoński" <matma.rex(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Since no one answered, let me ask a different question – would anyone oppose if I were to remove the .mw-ui-quiet class? On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Bartosz Dziewoński <matma.rex(a)gmail.com

wrote:

Actually, what is the rationale for having a separate "quiet" style?

The one that seems to be given here seems to be the "inverse Fitts' law" [1], but I don't really see how just making a button more bland helps with this. I'd be all for killing it and sticking to a simpler visual convention, just using regular (non-colored) buttons where we'd previously try to use the quiet ones. [1] http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-opposite-of-fitts-law/

(Resending because something ate the previous one.) -- Matma Rex _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

Jared Zimmerman

11:06 p.m.

New subject: Applicability and necessity of mw-ui-quiet

As Shahyar said, we're still iterating but there will be a need for a "non-primary" button in many places throughout the UI *Jared Zimmerman * \\ Director of User Experience \\ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmerman<https://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Shahyar Ghobadpour < sghobadpour(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

Since no one answered, let me ask a different question – would anyone oppose if I were to remove the .mw-ui-quiet class? On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Bartosz Dziewoński <matma.rex(a)gmail.com

wrote:

Actually, what is the rationale for having a separate "quiet" style?

_______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

Bartosz Dziewoński

5 Apr 5 Apr

5:20 p.m.

New subject: Applicability and necessity of mw-ui-quiet

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 01:06:11 +0200, Jared Zimmerman <jared.zimmerman(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

As Shahyar said, we're still iterating but there will be a need for a "non-primary" button in many places throughout the UI

And as I said, "[I suggest] sticking to a simpler visual convention, just using regular (non-colored) buttons where we'd previously try to use the quiet ones.". The primary button will, as far as I see, *always* be a .mw-ui-progressive (eye-catching blue), .mw-ui-constructive (eye-catching green) or a .mw-ui-destructive (eye-catching red). The non-primary buttons will not have any of these classes, and thus will be dimmed grey. That's more than enough distinction for me. -- Matma Rex

Shahyar Ghobadpour

5:30 p.m.

New subject: Applicability and necessity of mw-ui-quiet

Non-primary buttons will often still have context (eg. destructive for "Discard"). We'd like to allow these to remain, without overly drawing away from the primary action. --Shahyar On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Bartosz Dziewoński <matma.rex(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

...

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 01:06:11 +0200, Jared Zimmerman < jared.zimmerman(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: As Shahyar said, we're still iterating but there will be a need for a

"non-primary" button in many places throughout the UI

Bartosz Dziewoński

5:49 p.m.

New subject: Applicability and necessity of mw-ui-quiet

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:30:07 +0200, Shahyar Ghobadpour <sghobadpour(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

Non-primary buttons will often still have context (eg. destructive for "Discard"). We'd like to allow these to remain, without overly drawing away from the primary action.

I think this would be overengineered. The non-primary button should be just that – a dimmed, non-colored non-primary button. We shouldn't draw attention to it with colors. -- Matma Rex

Shahyar Ghobadpour

6 Apr 6 Apr

3:59 a.m.

New subject: Applicability and necessity of mw-ui-quiet

It's less for drawing attention to it, but rather to make the action itself clear on hover and focus. In an inactive state, it has a toned down style to avoid unnecessarily attracting eyes to non content areas. --Shahyar On Apr 5, 2014 1:49 PM, "Bartosz Dziewoński" <matma.rex(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:30:07 +0200, Shahyar Ghobadpour < sghobadpour(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: Non-primary buttons will often still have context (eg. destructive for

"Discard"). We'd like to allow these to remain, without overly drawing away from the primary action.

I think this would be overengineered. The non-primary button should be just that – a dimmed, non-colored non-primary button. We shouldn't draw attention to it with colors. -- Matma Rex _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

Jared Zimmerman

7 Apr 7 Apr

8:01 p.m.

New subject: Applicability and necessity of mw-ui-quiet

Bartosz, I think you and I are on the same page here. Shahyar agreed we'd proceed as-designed and do some iterative testing. Does that sound right Shahyar? If you have the time, to implement both styles we could do split testing with both via usertesting.com *Jared Zimmerman * \\ Director of User Experience \\ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmerman<https://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Shahyar Ghobadpour < sghobadpour(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:30:07 +0200, Shahyar Ghobadpour < sghobadpour(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: Non-primary buttons will often still have context (eg. destructive for

"Discard"). We'd like to allow these to remain, without overly drawing away from the primary action.

I think this would be overengineered. The non-primary button should be just that - a dimmed, non-colored non-primary button. We shouldn't draw attention to it with colors. -- Matma Rex _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

_______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

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Bartosz Dziewoński
Jared Zimmerman
Shahyar Ghobadpour