First off, sorry - my email was far from being well thought out, and I apologize if it seems as if I was singling you out. However I still think such behavior is not appropriate. And no, I do not mean swearing, I am referring to the content of messages. For example: "But no, you've gotta be an asshole just like always" is not offensive because you used the word asshole, it is offensive because you're implying the other person is being disruptive and shows bad judgement currently, and on a regular basis. It is a dirrect attack on the other person's personality. I don't know if you meant it like that, but if you did it is simply not an effective way to solve a dispute, and if it wasn't - I'm really not sure what else you could of meant by that, but regardless it is an inappropriate thing to say to someone else either way. Administrators are, for better or worse, the standard of what is appropriate, and as such should be careful to set a good example. I am concerned that such incivility will only lead to more incivility, resentment and grudges, until eventually wikinews will no longer be a friendly place to edit. -bawolff p.s. Again I would like to apologize for my previous email. Although I do believe that there are issues that should be worked out here, it was inappropriate of me to target SGN in my previous email, while implying I wasn't targeting anyone. Although that partly happened because that was something that was currently happening, and thus it was easy to pull examples from, that's still not an excuse. Sorry. On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Jon <wiki(a)konsoletek.com> wrote:

I'm not regular writer and doubt if I'll ever be. But for some reason/coincidence I followed the bitching between you. First I agreed (just nodded to myself actually) when I though the 'words' were inappropriate. Now that I find out it is 'not' what you meant ... So .. What is it to you? I think that 'bad language' is the problem here. Not the fact that someone has a 'judgement' issue. Anyone/Everyone has the right to judge judgement issues and personality issues as long as the other party chose to go public (This is Wikipedia... Excuse me!!!!). That's democracy! If I were you I'd stick to complaining in the old fashioned way... Public behavior issues: like NOT SWEARING and not NOT USING INAPPROPRIATE WORDS like "Asshole" ... Etc. That's an intrusion on morality and privacy - I don't (neither do children and other decent clean people) have to read another person's "bad" language, even if it makes this person feel glorious, as a "Hole". -------Original Message------- From: bawolff Date: 02/06/09 02:22:49 To: Wikinews mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikinews-l] Increased incivility at wikinews [en] First off, sorry - my email was far from being well thought out, and I apologize if it seems as if I was singling you out. However I still think such behavior is not appropriate. And no, I do not mean swearing, I am referring to the content of messages. For example: "But no, you've gotta be an asshole just like always" is not offensive because you used the word asshole, it is offensive because you're implying the other person is being disruptive and shows bad judgement currently, and on a regular basis. It is a dirrect attack on the other person's personality. I don't know if you meant it like that, but if you did it is simply not an effective way to solve a dispute, and if it wasn't - I'm really not sure what else you could of meant by that, but regardless it is an inappropriate thing to say to someone else either way. Administrators are, for better or worse, the standard of what is appropriate, and as such should be careful to set a good example. I am concerned that such incivility will only lead to more incivility, resentment and grudges, until eventually wikinews will no longer be a friendly place to edit. -bawolff p.s. Again I would like to apologize for my previous email. Although I do believe that there are issues that should be worked out here, it was inappropriate of me to target SGN in my previous email, while implying I wasn't targeting anyone. Although that partly happened because that was something that was currently happening, and thus it was easy to pull examples from, that's still not an excuse. Sorry. On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Jon <wiki(a)konsoletek.com> wrote: 4 Guess 2 someone uncalled apologize most incivility, worse of wrote _______________________________________________ Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

In retrospect, the mailing list was not an appropriate place to bring this up. I felt SGN's comments had crossed the line of what is and isn't appropriate, however I should have brought this up with the user privately first - but hey I'm human too and sometimes make mistakes. Now that I've opened this can of worms, the comments I'm referring to are: http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Daniel&diff=762506&a… and http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ShakataGaNai&diff=75… I don't expect everyone to like each other, but I expect contributors, especially those who are admins, to treat each other respectfully. Personal attacks, leaving FUCKYOUSVT in the NATO phonetic alphabet in an edit summary, etc is way way way over the line of what is appropriate. -bawolff On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil(a)wikinewsie.org> wrote: