For those interested in what's dropping in the fall with iOS7, it seems that there will be a slight change in the way Wikipedia search is integrated in to Siri.
Currently, you would need to explicitly use the name to search Wikipedia results alone or primarily ("Search Wikipedia for surfing" or "Wikipedia surfing"). It seems that they'll be using more natural language in iOS7, with phrases such as ("Tell me about surfing"), and also using something a lot more like the information snippets in Google Now or Quick View.
Here's a screenshot from today's keynote, which to me seems thin on attribution...
http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/img_9327.jpg?w=720&h...
On 11 Jun 2013, at 06:56, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Here's a screenshot from today's keynote, which to me seems thin on attribution...
I noticed this too, there's another screenshot on Apple's iOS7 feature page: http://images.apple.com/ios/ios7/features/images/siri_jupiter_screen.jpg
--- Thehelpfulone https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone
Good points, we'll look into what should be done on this matter.
* * * * *Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 4:14 AM, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonewiki@gmail.comwrote:
On 11 Jun 2013, at 06:56, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Here's a screenshot from today's keynote, which to me seems thin on attribution...
I noticed this too, there's another screenshot on Apple's iOS7 feature page: http://images.apple.com/ios/ios7/features/images/siri_jupiter_screen.jpg
Thehelpfulone https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:56 PM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.orgwrote:
For those interested in what's dropping in the fall with iOS7, it seems that there will be a slight change in the way Wikipedia search is integrated in to Siri.
Currently, you would need to explicitly use the name to search Wikipedia results alone or primarily ("Search Wikipedia for surfing" or "Wikipedia surfing"). It seems that they'll be using more natural language in iOS7, with phrases such as ("Tell me about surfing"), and also using something a lot more like the information snippets in Google Now or Quick View.
I'm fiddling with it on the iOS 7 beta build. Saying "what is X" seems to reliably pull up Wikipedia articles, as do some similar natural language queries. (But if you ask about anything Apple-related, Siri just tells you you should go to apple.com. What don't they trust us? ;)
Here's a screenshot from today's keynote, which to me seems thin on attribution...
Here's a combination shot showing what you get when you scroll down on that 'surfing' search: https://brionv.com/misc/siri-ios7-surfing-wikipedia.jpg
Somewhere down at the bottom it does actually say "Wikipedia", and if you tap on that it takes you to the Wikipedia article in Safari. Not the most visible attribution, but it's sorta there. :) It also shows a lot of related queries, which come up in the Siri view as well when tapped.
-- brion
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 6:21 AM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org wrote:
Here's a combination shot showing what you get when you scroll down on that 'surfing' search: https://brionv.com/misc/siri-ios7-surfing-wikipedia.jpg
Somewhere down at the bottom it does actually say "Wikipedia", and if you tap on that it takes you to the Wikipedia article in Safari. Not the most visible attribution, but it's sorta there. :) It also shows a lot of related queries, which come up in the Siri view as well when tapped.
Thanks for the detail Brion.
It's use of Wikipedia like this that makes me think we should charge for API access over a certain limit (obviously this would exclude cases like WP Zero partners). If Apple is going to siphon off potential contributors (editors or donors) to Wikipedia, we should make them pay a price up front. In a case like this and with Google's Knowledge Graph in search results, we're providing their users with massively useful data, and we're letting them elevate their brand far above Wikipedia's, so most users are potentially not even aware of where the information is coming from. We could reach out to them and ask for more prominent attribution, but begging companies like Google and Apple for better branding on a case-by-case basis is not really a safe bet in the long run.
This would result in:
1) Apple cloning our database 2) Siri working off their clone.
And then we'd have drift issues. I think we'd have to weigh the pros and cons of disseminating stale articles to traffic/activity loss.
On Jun 12, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
It's use of Wikipedia like this that makes me think we should charge for API access over a certain limit
--- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
I think the bigger issue is the arguable violation of the CC-BY-SA license that the content they are displaying is under. They're basically taking what has been written by a bunch of people for a public encyclopedia. Then displaying it alone with absolutely no attribution or hint to where it came from. Something that would give off the impression to normal people that Apple cultivated the database of information.
Fair use is nice. But there's no excuse for doing a copy of the core part of content, adding absolutely nothing to it, then not even saying where you got it from. While fair use is fairly liberal I have a feeling that even for clips this much copying without attribution would fail the requirements of fair use in a court.
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]
On 2013-06-12 11:01 AM, Brandon Harris wrote:
This would result in:
1) Apple cloning our database 2) Siri working off their clone.And then we'd have drift issues. I think we'd have to weigh the pros and cons of disseminating stale articles to traffic/activity loss.
On Jun 12, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
It's use of Wikipedia like this that makes me think we should charge for API access over a certain limit
Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Vibha pointed out that both Bing, and Wolfram|Alpha have pretty prominent branding within siri's UI
Many other siri featues also have prominent branding - open table - yelp - yahoo - twitter
if anything we look like an oversight not a purposeful omission.
* * * * *Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 6:21 AM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Here's a combination shot showing what you get when you scroll down on that 'surfing' search: https://brionv.com/misc/siri-ios7-surfing-wikipedia.jpg
Somewhere down at the bottom it does actually say "Wikipedia", and if you tap on that it takes you to the Wikipedia article in Safari. Not the most visible attribution, but it's sorta there. :) It also shows a lot of related queries, which come up in the Siri view as well when tapped.
Thanks for the detail Brion.
It's use of Wikipedia like this that makes me think we should charge for API access over a certain limit (obviously this would exclude cases like WP Zero partners). If Apple is going to siphon off potential contributors (editors or donors) to Wikipedia, we should make them pay a price up front. In a case like this and with Google's Knowledge Graph in search results, we're providing their users with massively useful data, and we're letting them elevate their brand far above Wikipedia's, so most users are potentially not even aware of where the information is coming from. We could reach out to them and ask for more prominent attribution, but begging companies like Google and Apple for better branding on a case-by-case basis is not really a safe bet in the long run.
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:49:15AM -0700, Steven Walling wrote:
It's use of Wikipedia like this that makes me think we should charge for API access over a certain limit (obviously this would exclude cases like WP Zero partners).
This would be a dangerous precedent, I think; deciding who gets to reuse mediawiki content based on the decision of a few administrators. Which is always going to be political.
I agree with Daniel, the issue is that they aren't attributing appropriately, as they are required to do by the copyright license.
You're right that technologies which take away the prominence of community editing and treat wikipedia just as a resource to consume are troubling, but I think in this case the proposed cure would be far worse than the disease.
Nick
On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Nick White nick.white@durham.ac.uk wrote:
I agree with Daniel, the issue is that they aren't attributing appropriately, as they are required to do by the copyright license.
Is there any chance the WMF will do this? Because I doubt any actual editors have the patience and resources to do it themselves.
*-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerromeo@gmail.com
On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:44 AM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Nick White nick.white@durham.ac.ukwrote:
I agree with Daniel, the issue is that they aren't attributing appropriately, as they are required to do by the copyright license.
Is there any chance the WMF will do this? Because I doubt any actual editors have the patience and resources to do it themselves.
We can ask Luis and the legal team about it. The actual release of iOS7 as an update isn't until the fall, so we're not exactly in a big hurry, but I'll make sure the request is forwarded on (if he's not on this list).
They are on it.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 14, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 2:44 AM, Tyler Romeo tylerromeo@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Nick White nick.white@durham.ac.uk wrote: I agree with Daniel, the issue is that they aren't attributing appropriately, as they are required to do by the copyright license.
Is there any chance the WMF will do this? Because I doubt any actual editors have the patience and resources to do it themselves.
We can ask Luis and the legal team about it. The actual release of iOS7 as an update isn't until the fall, so we're not exactly in a big hurry, but I'll make sure the request is forwarded on (if he's not on this list).
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design