Very true. This little story is very representative of how Commons can bite newbies (I know, I'm a biter). I believe that it is totally possible to solve this kind of communication problem on Commons.
But I think the solution is to hire full-time administrators.
An active admin on Commons can easily, in a single day and depending on his profile, close dozens of regular deletion requests and tag or speedy-delete one or two hundred pictures. Even if he limits himself to non-controversial, obvious actions. The workload and the backlog are really huge, the problematic contents land on Commons at a very high rate and the active administrators are really few. Contacting a user each time an action is taken is often simply not an option (in 75% of the cases, the user won't watch his messages on Commons anyway). I believe the current role of an admin on Commons is very different from the role on a Wikipedia, much more technical, much more task-oriented. The best I could personally do to improve the situation when I was sysop was to customize my message templates by automatically adding small textual explanations to them, with an invitation to contact me. I'm not sure it helped a lot, although I saw other admins using the same system after me (I think).
I don't think the Commons admin community could do much better, unless it can be ensured that a number of them spend 8 hours a day doing the job (and staying friendly all the time).
But I'm naturally pessimistic, so...
Guillaume
Le 22/02/2011 18:32, David Gerard a écrit :
Food for thought.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michel Vuijlsteke wikipedia@zog.org Date: 22 February 2011 16:29 Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Friendliness (was: Missing Wikipedians: An Essay) To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
On 22 February 2011 14:14, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ru wrote:
We have to make a profound choice in the culture here:
- we continue with the whacking and scaring the newbies away (content
priority #1, people #2), or 2) we embrace the newbies and we let some spam through (people priority
#1,
content #2).
So far we are steadily moving along the first route. I believe, it is
time
we switch the priorities. People are important. It's the people who will
be
creating content in the future, and not the other way around. Wikipedia will inevitably fail without participation. And content... we are already the largest and the best...
Renata
To me it sounds too much black and white. Indeed, there are points you better not stumble across as an editor: engaging into battles over disputed content (like Middle East conflict), writing articles on smth with disputed notability, pushing POV or not getting immediately the image upload rules. But I assume this is a relatively minor fraction of editors (though of course it still represents a problem). I can not recall that I ever got any templates in my articles (I have written over 500 of them since 2007), except for a couple of times from a bot that there are no links to the article, and that I ever got any angry comments from admins/other editors concerning the articles I have written.
I don't think it has to be as obviously annoying as slathering templates all over pages or wikilawyering the newbies away -- it's often much more subtle how content/data seems to be considered more important than people.
One interaction I encountered recently is typical. Michiel Hendryckx, one of Belgium's best-known photographers, started uploading fairly high-resolution, good quality images to Wikipedia (well, Commons) on 3 July 2010. Stuff like this 1983 Chet Baker portrait: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chet675.jpg
The first message on his talk page was a request to confirm his identity (which he did).
The second message was a complaint by Nikbot (no valid license for one particular image). A couple of hours later, at 10:51 on 4 July, the next message is from CategorizationBot, asking Hendryckx to add categories to his images.
The third message, not six hours later, was this:
*Please categorize our images !!!* You already have been asked by a bot to categorize your images. Therefore I don't understand why you keep on uploading images without categories. Uploading images without categorizing them doesn't make sense. Only categorized images can be found!
I'm pretty sure the user in question meant really well, but *this* is what that focusing on content over people means to me. It's in the small things, the interactions that experienced Wikipedians take in their stride, but that can end up scaring people away.
It's like the last message on Hendryckx' talk page, dated 1 February 2011: a notification that one if this images is listed at commons:deletion requests, and to "please do not take the deletion request personally... thank you!". Follow the link to the discussion ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Van_istenda...): turns out the requester couldn't see the image. His/her first action was to nominate the image for deletion. Took about three hours for someone to confirm that no, the image works perfectly fine for them, and about five hours for the original person to close the deletion request ("thanks").
Again: content over people. No personal interaction with the photographer, no message on the photographer's talk page after the deletion request was closed, nothing. The last interaction Hendryckx had on Commons -- on 19 February, almost three weeks after the deletion request was closed -- was a baffled question ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Deletion_requests/File:Van_is...), asking what on Earth is wrong with the image, and that he'd like to at least know why it needed to be deleted.
Again, I'm sure the user in question meant really well again, but here too: content over people. Drive-by templating, shoot first, don't ask questions, don't even provide feedback, trust people will read every last word in the templates, etc.
Michel Vuijlsteke _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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