I just posted something at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections
I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should be in both, how the style will differ?
I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read most of them and remember some. My question is whether we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP or even WT.
I think it would be a good idea to develop something both on Wikipedia and on WV
James
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Harris sandyinchina@gmail.comwrote:
I just posted something at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections
I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should be in both, how the style will differ?
I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read most of them and remember some. My question is whether we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP or even WT.
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
I agree Sandy Harris. This is one of our main tasks this year. Bringing some ideas together. I am going to put this topic on the WV -Lounge after. Maybe we ca draft a set of general rules...
2012/12/24 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
I think it would be a good idea to develop something both on Wikipedia and on WV
James
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Harris sandyinchina@gmail.comwrote:
I just posted something at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections
I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should be in both, how the style will differ?
I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read most of them and remember some. My question is whether we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP or even WT.
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
The Wikimania 2013 would be a good place to discuss it as well.
2012/12/26 Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com
I agree Sandy Harris. This is one of our main tasks this year. Bringing some ideas together. I am going to put this topic on the WV -Lounge after. Maybe we ca draft a set of general rules...
2012/12/24 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
I think it would be a good idea to develop something both on Wikipedia and on WV
James
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Harris sandyinchina@gmail.comwrote:
I just posted something at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections
I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should be in both, how the style will differ?
I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read most of them and remember some. My question is whether we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP or even WT.
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
We should arrange a few talks on Wikivoyage for Wikimania.
James
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com wrote:
The Wikimania 2013 would be a good place to discuss it as well.
2012/12/26 Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com
I agree Sandy Harris. This is one of our main tasks this year. Bringing some ideas together. I am going to put this topic on the WV -Lounge after. Maybe we ca draft a set of general rules...
2012/12/24 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
I think it would be a good idea to develop something both on Wikipedia and on WV
James
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Harris sandyinchina@gmail.comwrote:
I just posted something at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections
I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should be in both, how the style will differ?
I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read most of them and remember some. My question is whether we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP or even WT.
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Hi all,
We have had a little influx of Wikipedians on WV in swedish, which is nice. Already, different topics are under discussion, and some of them are way over my head... haha, which was expected. Some of the issues should really be covered on meta (such as issues about bot usage and global admin accounts) But, over the years and especially now, I have found that the most difficult thing there is, is how to make Wikipedians understand the ways in which WV differs from WP. Discussions about the need for sources, the amount of images in travel guides, internal wikilinks, why WV does not need massive history sections, etc, are simply hard to understand for the skilled Wikipedians. Personally, I think the two most important statements will have to be:
* Wikivoyage is not Wikipedia and certainly not a travel encyclopedia (with reference to the guideline Welcome, Wikipedians) * Wikivoyage's travel guides are first and above all intended for printing and taking along on the journey, not to be looked up online while on the move.
However, I am not sure how and where these statements should be emphasized to really make it "hit", so for now, it is and has to be a daily chore when we talk to fellow Wikipedians. The rules/policies/guidelines we have on WV, and many of them are from the very beginning of WT, are mostly clearly applicable.
Greetings,
Mattias
2012/12/26 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
We should arrange a few talks on Wikivoyage for Wikimania.
James
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.comwrote:
The Wikimania 2013 would be a good place to discuss it as well.
2012/12/26 Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com
I agree Sandy Harris. This is one of our main tasks this year. Bringing some ideas together. I am going to put this topic on the WV -Lounge after. Maybe we ca draft a set of general rules...
2012/12/24 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
I think it would be a good idea to develop something both on Wikipedia and on WV
James
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Harris sandyinchina@gmail.comwrote:
I just posted something at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections
I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should be in both, how the style will differ?
I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read most of them and remember some. My question is whether we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP or even WT.
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
I assume that these are already in the welcome templates?
James
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Mattias Sweden riggwelter2012@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
We have had a little influx of Wikipedians on WV in swedish, which is nice. Already, different topics are under discussion, and some of them are way over my head... haha, which was expected. Some of the issues should really be covered on meta (such as issues about bot usage and global admin accounts) But, over the years and especially now, I have found that the most difficult thing there is, is how to make Wikipedians understand the ways in which WV differs from WP. Discussions about the need for sources, the amount of images in travel guides, internal wikilinks, why WV does not need massive history sections, etc, are simply hard to understand for the skilled Wikipedians. Personally, I think the two most important statements will have to be:
- Wikivoyage is not Wikipedia and certainly not a travel
encyclopedia (with reference to the guideline Welcome, Wikipedians)
- Wikivoyage's travel guides are first and above all intended for printing
and taking along on the journey, not to be looked up online while on the move.
However, I am not sure how and where these statements should be emphasized to really make it "hit", so for now, it is and has to be a daily chore when we talk to fellow Wikipedians. The rules/policies/guidelines we have on WV, and many of them are from the very beginning of WT, are mostly clearly applicable.
Greetings,
Mattias
2012/12/26 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
We should arrange a few talks on Wikivoyage for Wikimania.
James
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.comwrote:
The Wikimania 2013 would be a good place to discuss it as well.
2012/12/26 Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com
I agree Sandy Harris. This is one of our main tasks this year. Bringing some ideas together. I am going to put this topic on the WV -Lounge after. Maybe we ca draft a set of general rules...
2012/12/24 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
I think it would be a good idea to develop something both on Wikipedia and on WV
James
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Harris <sandyinchina@gmail.com
wrote:
I just posted something at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections
I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should be in both, how the style will differ?
I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read most of them and remember some. My question is whether we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP or even WT.
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
On sv; the guideline "Welcome, Wikipedians" includes the bullet points, but in an extended version. The guideline is linked from our standard welcome message. I do not know whether the other language versions features similar solutions.
Our welcome message:
http://sv.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Mall:Intro
We will probably change the template so we further emphasize the importance of the "Welcome..." guideline:
http://sv.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:V%C3%A4lkomna,_Wikipedianer
Another possible solution, or complement, is to add a heads-up to our local SiteNotice.
//Mattias
2013/1/7 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
I assume that these are already in the welcome templates?
James
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Mattias Sweden riggwelter2012@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
We have had a little influx of Wikipedians on WV in swedish, which is nice. Already, different topics are under discussion, and some of them are way over my head... haha, which was expected. Some of the issues should really be covered on meta (such as issues about bot usage and global admin accounts) But, over the years and especially now, I have found that the most difficult thing there is, is how to make Wikipedians understand the ways in which WV differs from WP. Discussions about the need for sources, the amount of images in travel guides, internal wikilinks, why WV does not need massive history sections, etc, are simply hard to understand for the skilled Wikipedians. Personally, I think the two most important statements will have to be:
- Wikivoyage is not Wikipedia and certainly not a travel
encyclopedia (with reference to the guideline Welcome, Wikipedians)
- Wikivoyage's travel guides are first and above all intended for
printing and taking along on the journey, not to be looked up online while on the move.
However, I am not sure how and where these statements should be emphasized to really make it "hit", so for now, it is and has to be a daily chore when we talk to fellow Wikipedians. The rules/policies/guidelines we have on WV, and many of them are from the very beginning of WT, are mostly clearly applicable.
Greetings,
Mattias
2012/12/26 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
We should arrange a few talks on Wikivoyage for Wikimania.
James
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.comwrote:
The Wikimania 2013 would be a good place to discuss it as well.
2012/12/26 Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com
I agree Sandy Harris. This is one of our main tasks this year. Bringing some ideas together. I am going to put this topic on the WV -Lounge after. Maybe we ca draft a set of general rules...
2012/12/24 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
I think it would be a good idea to develop something both on Wikipedia and on WV
James
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Harris < sandyinchina@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just posted something at > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections > > I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many > cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do > we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should > be in both, how the style will differ? > > I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read > most of them and remember some. My question is whether > we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of > editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP > or even WT. > > _______________________________________________ > Wikivoyage-l mailing list > Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l >
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
http://pt.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Predefini%C3%A7%C3%A3o:Bv
The solution I used was to introduce the Wikimedia movement concept to the new volunteers, so he knows that Wikipedia is not Wikivoyage but part of the same Movement and have the same ideal. I think this is the beginning, because if we know that the projects belong to the same movement, there must be some reason to have two separate projects.
I just think we should not fight that much, there are solutions found in Wikipedia that should be imported into the Wikivoyage. And for God's sake, I'm not talking about bots with automatic messages dehumanizing processes of interaction.
On 8 January 2013 07:34, Mattias Sweden riggwelter2012@gmail.com wrote:
On sv; the guideline "Welcome, Wikipedians" includes the bullet points, but in an extended version. The guideline is linked from our standard welcome message. I do not know whether the other language versions features similar solutions.
Our welcome message:
http://sv.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Mall:Intro
We will probably change the template so we further emphasize the importance of the "Welcome..." guideline:
http://sv.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:V%C3%A4lkomna,_Wikipedianer
Another possible solution, or complement, is to add a heads-up to our local SiteNotice.
//Mattias
2013/1/7 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
I assume that these are already in the welcome templates?
James
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Mattias Sweden riggwelter2012@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
We have had a little influx of Wikipedians on WV in swedish, which is nice. Already, different topics are under discussion, and some of them are way over my head... haha, which was expected. Some of the issues should really be covered on meta (such as issues about bot usage and global admin accounts) But, over the years and especially now, I have found that the most difficult thing there is, is how to make Wikipedians understand the ways in which WV differs from WP. Discussions about the need for sources, the amount of images in travel guides, internal wikilinks, why WV does not need massive history sections, etc, are simply hard to understand for the skilled Wikipedians. Personally, I think the two most important statements will have to be:
- Wikivoyage is not Wikipedia and certainly not a travel
encyclopedia (with reference to the guideline Welcome, Wikipedians)
- Wikivoyage's travel guides are first and above all intended for
printing and taking along on the journey, not to be looked up online while on the move.
However, I am not sure how and where these statements should be emphasized to really make it "hit", so for now, it is and has to be a daily chore when we talk to fellow Wikipedians. The rules/policies/guidelines we have on WV, and many of them are from the very beginning of WT, are mostly clearly applicable.
Greetings,
Mattias
2012/12/26 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
We should arrange a few talks on Wikivoyage for Wikimania.
James
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.comwrote:
The Wikimania 2013 would be a good place to discuss it as well.
2012/12/26 Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com
I agree Sandy Harris. This is one of our main tasks this year. Bringing some ideas together. I am going to put this topic on the WV -Lounge after. Maybe we ca draft a set of general rules...
2012/12/24 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
> I think it would be a good idea to develop something both on > Wikipedia and on WV > > James > > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Harris < > sandyinchina@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I just posted something at >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections >> >> I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many >> cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do >> we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should >> be in both, how the style will differ? >> >> I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read >> most of them and remember some. My question is whether >> we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of >> editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP >> or even WT. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikivoyage-l mailing list >> Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l >> > > > > -- > James Heilman > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine > www.opentextbookofmedicine.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikivoyage-l mailing list > Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l > >
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
Wikivoyage-l mailing list Wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
On Mon, Dec 24, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Sandy Harris <sandyinchina@gmail.com mailto:sandyinchina@gmail.com> wrote:
I just posted something at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xiamen#Tourism_and_Shopping_Sections I think it points to a more general problem. Given that in many cases both WV and WP will have articles on the same place, do we need to clarify what goes in which article, which things should be in both, how the style will differ? I know there are policies that cover much of this; I have read most of them and remember some. My question is whether we need anything more since we can expect a large influx of editors soon and many will have WP experience but not WP or even WT.
There is http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Welcome,_Wikipedians which lists a few key differences, but nothing to say "leave this portion of the info out to avoid duplicating the other project"
wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org