I most certainly can.
en.wikipedia is so popular that lots of people use it even when it's not their native language. Editors from other Wikipedias go there to edit interwiki links, find articles to translate, copy template code, brush up on their English skills, etc.
I realize the other languages are linked from the Main Page, but not prominently. After all, Roger's whole point is that he thinks we should show people Real Content they'll Enjoy Looking At rather than stupid language links no one wants to see, right? So why would they go scrolling around for language links if there's all that beautiful Content looking at them on our Main Page?
The other point, beyond accommodating non-native English speakers, is showing /everyone/ that we have a full multilingual project already. Reporters, curious onlookers -- everyone.
Powers &8^]
-----Original Message----- From: Cacahuate [mailto:yocacahuate@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday 15 January 2013 22:18 To: Wikivoyage Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikivoyage-l] Wikivoyage launch central notice
LtP, you can't possibly think that the number of users clicking on the banner from wp:en and seeking a language other than wv:en could be anything but minuscule.
And for the tiny group that might be, the other languages are then just a 2nd click away, from two different points on the en main page. Making it just as accessible as linking to the portal would. Not a single click extra
Cacahuate
On Jan 15, 2013, at 2:12 PM, "Powers" LtPowers_Wiki@rochester.rr.com wrote:
I think you're not giving readers enough credit. It is wrong for us to assume which language version a curious reader might want to see. And
it
certainly doesn't seem to have affected the number of people coming to
make
edits.
Without some sort of concrete data behind your claim that no one is
going to
click through the portal page, I can't agree with making it more
difficult
for readers to find the language version they're interested in.
Powers &8^]
-----Original Message----- From: roger@rogerchrisman.com [mailto:roger@rogerchrisman.com] Sent: Tuesday 15 January 2013 13:58 To: Wikivoyage Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikivoyage-l] Wikivoyage launch central notice
Please change the default banner link back to en.wikivoyage.org. Here's why:
Links to various language versions are in the left sidebar of every Wikipedia and Wikivoyage page. The _very small_ number of our default banner clicking audience who don't want English should not drive our choice here. De, es, fr, it, nl, pt, ru, and sv Wikipedia should all have custom links to respective language. The default link for all other language version banners and most importantly the English Wikipedia banner should definitely be en.wikivoyage.org.
The hard fact (those who know more about this please chime in) is that most people clicking a banner are only curious and will go away if this click only takes them to a boring portal. They have other things to do.
We will have failed badly, and wasted our Central Notice spot, if many people who click our banner never even see our site. These people were consulting Wikipedia for a reason and understandably wanted to get back to what they were doing. Asking them to go farther than one click into our banner is overreaching. So skip the portal.
When I started working on our banner, I was sure the portal was the place to send people because *I* wanted to show off all our language versions. I also wanted to show off some of our beautiful travel photos right in the banner itself. But that would have required a separate photo credits link in the banner. Jalexander, who has done many central notice banners, told me that he had found that putting more than one link in a banner actually confuses people about where we are leading them and many respond to that lack of direction by not clicking on the banner at all. Oh, I realized, *I* wanted to show people two things, our portal AND our site, but that people would respond to this lack of direction by going away because they only want to see one thing and then get back to what they were doing.
So the question becomes, do we want people to see our portal or our site? And which would people find more rewarding to see? It's a matter of perspective. I propose we honor the perspective of most of our banner viewers and show them the en.wikivoyage Main Page, unless they are viewing one of the eight other language versions of Wikipedia for which we have a Wikivoyage version.
CentralNotice is a hugely powerful messenger, it is a shame to use it badly. I don't think people's feelings will be hurt by our portal but I do think most of them will feel it is so much uninspired and boring cruft and many will go no farther. Period. What a shame that would be. So link to our site directly, not the portal.
People don't want to go to another page to another page. They are wary of that time sink.
This is not about our feelings. It is about the feelings off the huge number of people we are showing the banner to who frankly expect us to show them something interesting in _one_ click. It is about doing this smart. Let's not bore them with our portal. Please think this through.
It is exciting. But let's face it, you and I are more interested in Wikivoyage than most people. Let's not start off boring them with our boring portal. If they are genuinely interested, they will find it soon enough next time they type wikivoyage into their location bar. But they wont even do that if they haven't first seen the site and what it offers. We need to offer a first glimpse of the site, not a fist glimpse of the boring portal. Most people will be lending us only five seconds of their time. Let's not squander it.
I designed the banner's default link, and the English version link, to be en.wikivoyage.org for above reasons.
Would a Meta admin please change it back to en.wikivoyage.org. Sure, wait for discussion, but don't wait till tomorrow... the notice is running now.
Roger
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