Wikivoyage-l November 2012

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31 participants
31 discussions

Help needed with sitenotice
by Erik Moeller 07 Nov '12

07 Nov '12

As we gear up for the launch "in beta", we should prepare a nice sitenotice that explains what's going on. I've put up a quick draft here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikivoyage/Beta_notice Would appreciate edits and translations. The "oldwikivoyagelink" will be replaced via JavaScript as that's more reliable than using magicwords in a sitenotice. Cheers, Erik -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Work on WTS
by Peter B Fitzgerald 07 Nov '12

07 Nov '12

Should work be done on wts.wikivoyage or wts.wikivoyage-old? Does it matter? Will wts.wikivoyage be shut down soon and redirected to wts.wikivoyage-old? -Peter

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Launch: We're moving forward
by Erik Moeller 06 Nov '12

06 Nov '12

Hi folks, based on the poll at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Travel_Guide/Launch , Stefan's go-ahead, and the potential significant delays that we'd incur if we deferred [*], I'm going to be bold and I'm authorizing the launch this week as originally planned. Here's what this will mean: * Hans is preparing database dumps tonight. Any wiki will need to go into read-only mode the moment dumps are being kicked off, and will need to remain in read-only mode on the old server. WTS, SHARED, GENERAL and ASSOC are exempt from this as they'll not be migrated as-such. They can remain editable for purposes such as tagging content statuses. * We're still waiting for the registrar of wikivoyage.org to finalize the transfer. We've aimed to accelerate this process as much as possible, but to some extent it's ouside of our control. We hope that the transfer will be completed tomorrow. Worst case scenario is that the wikis under wikivoyage.org will be read-only for a few more days. (There are technical workarounds to access the new site if this happens, which we will post if needed.) * Tomorrow and Wednesday we'll spend a lot of time debugging the imports and the new site functions. A lot of things will incrementally be fixed so don't be surprised if things are a bit bumpy at first. * The site will be configured to use Commons as its media repository, so any files referenced from there will work. Other files will need to be uploaded either to Commons or to the local wiki under the non-free content policy. * We'll run a sitenotice that explains that the site is in beta, how to access pages on the old server, and how to help report bugs and fix issues. * wikivoyage-old.org WILL WORK to access the old sites for as long as needed. It's going to be a bit of a bumpy ride, so please bear with us. Thanks much for your understanding and support in getting the word out. All best, Erik [*] We'd have to either schedule a window into Hans' upcoming long travel through the US and Mexico, or ensure that we've got all the procedures reviewed and tested by Wikivoyage's other administrators. It would be possible, but I think most people really would like to see this project move forward without entering a long window of uncertainty. -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Migration Update
by Chris Steipp 06 Nov '12

06 Nov '12

Just a quick update to let you know that the migration is progressing, although some pieces are taking a little longer than anticipated (English is _still_ exporting!). After working out a few process issues on our side, things seem to be progressing well, so at this point it looks like we are on track to finish the migration tomorrow before Hans leaves. Thanks for all your hard work everyone! Chris

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en.wv preview
by Erik Moeller 05 Nov '12

05 Nov '12

We've been testing the import on our virtualization cluster with dumps from both the MySQL and PostgreSQL wikis. You can see a preview of English WV here: http://en.wikivoyage.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page This is purely for testing, although we may keep it around as a staging environment for new code/configs post-migration. Just don't expect any edits you make there to stick around. We may prep some pages there to copy over to production later. NOTE that this doesn't have _any_ image support, not even for Commons, it's just for testing the extensions and configuration. In addition to most of the old extensions, we've got the UserMergeAndDelete extension running, which should enable consolidation of multiple accounts from previous wikis. This page could use some eyeballs to see if it makes sense (again, this is not real data, so you can't test migrating real accounts): http://en.wikivoyage.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:User_account_migration The de.wv version isn't quite ready for primetime and may be outpaced by the actual production launch. Other than images, please take a look around and report glaring issues that you see. Note that performance is poor because it's not on production hardware yet. Erik -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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[Important] Please weigh in on migration poll
by Erik Moeller 05 Nov '12

05 Nov '12

Hi folks, this is a reminder to please weigh in on the poll started by James Heilman here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Travel_Guide/Launch Essentially, we can either attempt a migration this week (and the transfer of files to Commons will have to continue from wikivoyage-old.org, with images showing up as red links until it's done) or we can defer it. Deferring it means potentially delay by 60-90 days or longer (see below). The domain name transfer was initiated last week, so that part is taken care of (we're just pointing it back at the old sites for now). I've just spoken to Hans about potential dates for a later transfer. Hans is travelling for a pretty long time. We might be able to arrange for a stop in Mexico around January so he can work from there to do the database backups. But the only definite thing I could say is that we'd be able to do it in February/March 2013 before he returns to Germany. Alternatively, we could work with Stefan and Roland on the modalities of the transfer, but I'd have to confirm their availability and comfort level first. So my recommendation continues to be to enter a public "beta" with a prominent sitenotice saying something along the lines of: Wikivoyage is in beta as a Wikimedia project. - Please help transfer images from wikivoyage-old.org - Learn more about consolidating your user account - Report bugs - View this page on the old site By having a prominent "View this page on the old site" link, we can ensure that readers will always find the full content. We'll make a decision end of day today based on the opinions expressed here and in the poll. Erik -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Launch as Beta, sort out images on the fly
by Jani Patokallio 04 Nov '12

04 Nov '12

A +1 for the suggestion to launch Wikivoyage-at-WMF now, but as "beta", and solicit help from the community to fix up the links. I think it's important to have everything in its final place and final host, so we can be sure that "what you see is what you get" and a page fixed now will stay fixed. Once the images are sorted out (and, possibly, a new logo chosen?), we can make the launch official, issue press releases etc, and start drawing wider Internet attention to the site. Cheers, -jani

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Migration without the repository "shared"
by Berth.Gabel 04 Nov '12

04 Nov '12

Berthold Gabel Bgabel(a)wikivoyage-ev.org In the "Lounge" of Wikivoyage-de I read that the migration will start in a few days, but the database "shared" will not be transferred to the server of the WMF. This I note: "Halloween" is over, and "Carnival" is yet to come. That can not be a serious idea to start anew Wikivoyage in a massive disaster. Under these conditions, a collaboration from the beginning makes no fun. Was that the intention? Berthold

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Migration without the repository "shared"
by carlb 04 Nov '12

04 Nov '12

> James Heilman jmh649 at gmail.com Sat Nov 3 22:59:02 UTC 2012: > If we had the new travel site up and running would it not be easier to > address the image issue? We will get more volunteers joining in and it will > be easier to figure out what work needs to be done. Actually, no. Volunteers are not your unpaid employees. They are not here to fix things you (or the WMF) have deliberately broken, for whatever reason. As far as I know, the original reason why the community left Wikitravel for Wikivoyage was that the site was poorly-maintained and unreliable. Giving them something even more broken (for instance, all images turned into redlinks) is just a way to lose the users entirely. > If we can keep wikivoyage-old.org up and running for a year that should > give ample time to address this, no? Would be great to go live as a WMF > site before X-mas. > James Heilman Not really. It would be preferable to do this properly as a broken site isn't much of an Xmas gift. Given the number of images involved (it seems to be about 13000 out of a set of over 30000?) there is no reasonable prospect that someone is going to manually go through all of those images for you, on your arbitrary deadline, just because you thought it would be a good idea to move a wiki prematurely and leave the images stranded on some other website. There are just too many of them. The only way I can see this working is if everything were automated - 'bots to exclude unused images or images already on WMF commons: bots to search-and-replace filenames if the commons: version is called something else, bots to take any images which are in use and not already on commons and move them to the individual-language Wikitravel project(s) using them, marked with a template indicating that they should be checked for suitability for tagging to move to commons (much like there are 'bots and tags to move free images from w:en: to commons:) Perhaps the site should be left where it is for now. Haste makes waste.

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Updates: wikivoyage-old.org, domain transfer, etc.
by Erik Moeller 04 Nov '12

04 Nov '12

Hi folks, here's the latest: * wikivoyage-old.org now works to access the wikis hosted by WV e.V. Those wikis will go into read-only mode post-migration (with the probable exception of the media repositories for purposes such as tagging) and this domain ensures that they'll remain accessible. * We've signed the agreement with WikiVoyage e.V. to transfer the domain (thanks Hans, Stefan and everyone else involved) and initiated the transfer. Once our registrar inputs the auth code to confirm the change of ownership, WMF will control wikivoyage.org. Initially we will point back to the old sites. Please let us know if you experience any odd issues in the next couple of days. * As mentioned before, we're not moving the file repos. Files have to be manually transferred over. If you've not already been involved in this process, now is a good time to get involved. Please see: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wikitravel_Shared_transfer_task_… and especially the talk page for the community process to transfer files. This can continue well after the migration thanks to WV e.V. continuing to host wikivoyage-old.org. I know it's painful to start with a lot of red links, but I really think this is the best approach to ensure that files are vetted, uploaded either locally (under EDP) or to Commons, templates and categories cleaned up, etc. I'd suggest running a sitenotice on all wikis asking people to help with this, pointing to the Commons task force. * Our target date for the switch is Tuesday. I will send another update should that date change. Just before the switch wikis will have to go into read-only mode for at least a few hours to ensure that up-to-date dumps can reliably be produced. Hans will help manage this process. It's getting exciting :-). Please bear with us as there are almost certainly going to be glitches, frustrations and annoyances. We'll work to fix and improve things as we go. All best, Erik -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Wikivoyage-l November 2012