Hi Belayet,
I greatly appreciate that you have started a discussion about the MoA. For your information, the memorandum is not final until we get the final approval. The “Done” means we are done with submitting the draft MoA. But we can change in case of any concerning issues raised by ChapCom or the community.
Of course, anyone can ask for a change to the MoA. So, please feel free to propose any changes here. But please be specific about the justification and benefits of the requested change.
And it's very much appreciated that the persons you mentioned in your mail care about community, not position/titles. We have twenty sections in the proposed MoA to check and review, which all can review for the community.
Ragib
User:Ragib on en and bn
-- Ragib Hasan, Ph.D NSF Computing Innovation Fellow and Assistant Research Scientist
Dept of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University 3400 N Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21218
Website: http://www.ragibhasan.com
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Belayet Hossain bellayet@gmail.com wrote:
I'd like to thank Nasir, he mentioned we altogether tried before to form the chapter. I don't agree to use the term "failed" with the initiative that we all have taken before. We wanted to inform and aware about the need and importance of a Chapter, and we tried with our various efforts. Now we can see our results, lots of people are coming forward to take the flag ahead.
At the meta page the status of the memorandum is set as "Done". Is that is for the draft is done or the memorandum is final? And some signatories said that the memorandum has been sent to the ChapCom for review. If the draft is done but not finalize then there is scope of discussion and change. But if it is final and submitted to the ChapCom, is it possible to discuss about it and change it? If people want to comment on the clauses, how they should approach? Should they discuss it at the mailing list or ask to the signatories or discuss it at the talk page of the memorandum page?
Previously I encourage peoples to be a part of the Chapter. Some of them are still active who really feeling left out. They don't have interest for any post at the executive board of the Chapter. Since they worked hard for the chapter and has feelings and soft corner for this. Couple of them shown interest to be a signatory and asked how would they do it. Is there any way to include active people worked for the chapter at the signatories list? Should they apply to the existing signatories or should they edit the wiki pages and include their names by their own. Or if they express their interest to the mailing list, is it possible to include them to the list?
Our future can be bright. Let's make it together.
Belayet
On 27 May 2011 02:55, nasir khan nasir8891@gmail.com wrote:
Dear all,
When i was reading the previous posts i found that some of you are interpreting this step in different ways. As Bellayet bhai, Tanvir and some others mentioned that we have tried before to form the chapter. I was involved there, and those times we first announced that we were going to form a chapter. Then initially a large number of people showed their interest. We made the plans and discuss on it but unfortunately the initiative was failed.
This one is one of the reasons to work primarily in a closed group. And here we (the signatories of MoA) just made a draft Memorandum of Association of our organization and then announcing that, the process has started and every one should join now. The only difference is here the announcement has came when the draft bylaws is ready and previously the announcement and discussion was the only step.
Now there are a lots of tasks to do. like the draft of MoA could be reviewed, plans have to made that what events could be done after the approval and so on. If someone thought that some of us just made a team and declaring that we have all the powers, then it will be wrong. We just tried to start the process only and as mentioned int he MoA the formal executive committee will be elected in a transparent process.
regards
Nasir Khan Saikat user:nasir8891
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Tanvir Rahman wikitanvir@gmail.com wrote:
Dear everyone,
I want to clear few things myself. As Shabab bhai said earlier, we have been trying to form our local chapter for almost two years. If I remember that correctly, last time, we have discussed that in October 2009. We met in our fifth Dhaka meet-up [1]. We discussed about forming the chapter there, we participated in many IRC meetings on #wikimedia-bd channel. I, myself was in that process. We talked about preparing the MoA, and some necessary stuffs to create the chapter. We did not discuss about chapter set-up committee in our mailing list that time either. We created the team with the persons who participated in that meet-up. We just assumed good faith that those people who attended in that meet-up, and sacrificed their money and time, were the really interested ones. But unfortunately that effort did not work.
But this time, we have given this process a real kick-start at least, and what we really did here? We just formed a little team of interested persons to work in this process. If any of you think this team is the so called “authority”, then no, it's clearly not like that. As everybody said here, real authority will be elected by the community members. And as of now, we have done only two things:
a) We have prepared the “draft” Memorandum of Association of our organization. b) We contacted to chapters committee, and told them we are interested to form the chapter this time. This is just one step ahead; we stepped up to planned chapter from a chapter in discussion phase [2].
None of them is no big deal. Actually, this is some boring paper works. And very few people are interested in this kind of stuffs.
And if you are thinking about autocracy, then I have to say, every chapter or organization has an approved bylaws (for any legal purpose), and every member of that organization (including office bearers and board members) have to maintain that. This is not optional. It's obvious.
As Tonmoy bhai and Austin has said above, I think you all better discuss here about the only real ting we have really done so far, the bylaws. If you have any disagreement or comment or just a wishful feedback on that, please share this here with us.
Regards,
-- Tanvir Rahman http://bit.ly/wikitanvir
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Dhaka/Dhaka5 [2] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters#Planned_chapters _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-BD mailing list Wikimedia-BD@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-bd
-- Nasir Khan Saikat
Wikimedia-BD mailing list Wikimedia-BD@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-bd
-- Belayet Hossain http://www.facebook.com/bellayet http://twitter.com/bellayet http://bellayet.wordpress.com (Bangla) Knowledge is universal ...so share it.
Hillel____ If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?
Wikimedia-BD mailing list Wikimedia-BD@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-bd
Dear All, After read this all post first congratulation to the team for the MoA. But i need to know something about one issue & i think its need to share with all. As far as i know we have three option for Bangladesh.
1. A trust under Ministry of law (under trust act) 2. A Society Under Society Act (This one proposed) 3. A registration from Social Welfare depart.
Could any one explain why we go for option 2. I am not a legal person so it would be better if anyone explain why we go for society act.
Thanks
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Ragib Hasan ragibhasan@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Belayet,
I greatly appreciate that you have started a discussion about the MoA. For your information, the memorandum is not final until we get the final approval. The “Done” means we are done with submitting the draft MoA. But we can change in case of any concerning issues raised by ChapCom or the community.
Of course, anyone can ask for a change to the MoA. So, please feel free to propose any changes here. But please be specific about the justification and benefits of the requested change.
And it's very much appreciated that the persons you mentioned in your mail care about community, not position/titles. We have twenty sections in the proposed MoA to check and review, which all can review for the community.
Ragib
User:Ragib on en and bn
-- Ragib Hasan, Ph.D NSF Computing Innovation Fellow and Assistant Research Scientist
Dept of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University 3400 N Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21218
Website: http://www.ragibhasan.com
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Belayet Hossain bellayet@gmail.com wrote:
I'd like to thank Nasir, he mentioned we altogether tried before to form
the
chapter. I don't agree to use the term "failed" with the initiative that
we
all have taken before. We wanted to inform and aware about the need and importance of a Chapter, and we tried with our various efforts. Now we
can
see our results, lots of people are coming forward to take the flag
ahead.
At the meta page the status of the memorandum is set as "Done". Is that
is
for the draft is done or the memorandum is final? And some signatories
said
that the memorandum has been sent to the ChapCom for review. If the draft
is
done but not finalize then there is scope of discussion and change. But
if
it is final and submitted to the ChapCom, is it possible to discuss about
it
and change it? If people want to comment on the clauses, how they should approach? Should they discuss it at the mailing list or ask to the signatories or discuss it at the talk page of the memorandum page?
Previously I encourage peoples to be a part of the Chapter. Some of them
are
still active who really feeling left out. They don't have interest for
any
post at the executive board of the Chapter. Since they worked hard for
the
chapter and has feelings and soft corner for this. Couple of them shown interest to be a signatory and asked how would they do it. Is there any
way
to include active people worked for the chapter at the signatories list? Should they apply to the existing signatories or should they edit the
wiki
pages and include their names by their own. Or if they express their interest to the mailing list, is it possible to include them to the list?
Our future can be bright. Let's make it together.
Belayet
On 27 May 2011 02:55, nasir khan nasir8891@gmail.com wrote:
Dear all,
When i was reading the previous posts i found that some of you are interpreting this step in different ways. As Bellayet bhai, Tanvir and
some
others mentioned that we have tried before to form the chapter. I was involved there, and those times we first announced that we were going to form a chapter. Then initially a large number of people showed their interest. We made the plans and discuss on it but unfortunately the initiative was failed.
This one is one of the reasons to work primarily in a closed group. And here we (the signatories of MoA) just made a draft Memorandum of
Association
of our organization and then announcing that, the process has started
and
every one should join now. The only difference is here the announcement
has
came when the draft bylaws is ready and previously the announcement and discussion was the only step.
Now there are a lots of tasks to do. like the draft of MoA could be reviewed, plans have to made that what events could be done after the approval and so on. If someone thought that some of us just made a team
and
declaring that we have all the powers, then it will be wrong. We just
tried
to start the process only and as mentioned int he MoA the formal
executive
committee will be elected in a transparent process.
regards
Nasir Khan Saikat user:nasir8891
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Tanvir Rahman wikitanvir@gmail.com wrote:
Dear everyone,
I want to clear few things myself. As Shabab bhai said earlier, we have been trying to form our local chapter for almost two years. If I
remember
that correctly, last time, we have discussed that in October 2009. We
met in
our fifth Dhaka meet-up [1]. We discussed about forming the chapter
there,
we participated in many IRC meetings on #wikimedia-bd channel. I,
myself was
in that process. We talked about preparing the MoA, and some necessary stuffs to create the chapter. We did not discuss about chapter set-up committee in our mailing list that time either. We created the team
with the
persons who participated in that meet-up. We just assumed good faith
that
those people who attended in that meet-up, and sacrificed their money
and
time, were the really interested ones. But unfortunately that effort
did not
work.
But this time, we have given this process a real kick-start at least,
and
what we really did here? We just formed a little team of interested
persons
to work in this process. If any of you think this team is the so called “authority”, then no, it's clearly not like that. As everybody said
here,
real authority will be elected by the community members. And as of now,
we
have done only two things:
a) We have prepared the “draft” Memorandum of Association of our organization. b) We contacted to chapters committee, and told them we are interested
to
form the chapter this time. This is just one step ahead; we stepped up
to
planned chapter from a chapter in discussion phase [2].
None of them is no big deal. Actually, this is some boring paper works. And very few people are interested in this kind of stuffs.
And if you are thinking about autocracy, then I have to say, every chapter or organization has an approved bylaws (for any legal purpose),
and
every member of that organization (including office bearers and board members) have to maintain that. This is not optional. It's obvious.
As Tonmoy bhai and Austin has said above, I think you all better
discuss
here about the only real ting we have really done so far, the bylaws.
If you
have any disagreement or comment or just a wishful feedback on that,
please
share this here with us.
Regards,
-- Tanvir Rahman http://bit.ly/wikitanvir
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Dhaka/Dhaka5 [2] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters#Planned_chapters _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-BD mailing list Wikimedia-BD@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-bd
-- Nasir Khan Saikat
Wikimedia-BD mailing list Wikimedia-BD@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-bd
-- Belayet Hossain http://www.facebook.com/bellayet http://twitter.com/bellayet http://bellayet.wordpress.com (Bangla) Knowledge is universal ...so share it.
Hillel____ If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?
Wikimedia-BD mailing list Wikimedia-BD@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-bd
Wikipedia-BN mailing list Wikipedia-BN@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-bn
Mr. Nurunnaby Hasive asked a question about the proposed MoA. As this thread was cross-posted to both Wikipedia-BN and Wikimedia-BD list, I think the people subscribed only to the Wikimedia-BD list did not get this email (Mr. Nurunnaby Hasive only posted it to Wikipedia-BN list). So, I am forwarding it.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Nurunnaby Hasive nhasive@bdosn.org Date: Sat, May 28, 2011 at 21:52 Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-BN] [Wikimedia-BD] Formation of Wikimedia Bangladesh - (local chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation) To: Bengali Wikipedia wikipedia-bn@lists.wikimedia.org
Dear All, After read this all post first congratulation to the team for the MoA. But i need to know something about one issue & i think its need to share with all. As far as i know we have three option for Bangladesh.
1. A trust under Ministry of law (under trust act) 2. A Society Under Society Act (This one proposed) 3. A registration from Social Welfare depart.
Could any one explain why we go for option 2. I am not a legal person so it would be better if anyone explain why we go for society act.
Thanks
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Ragib Hasan ragibhasan@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Belayet,
I greatly appreciate that you have started a discussion about the MoA. For your information, the memorandum is not final until we get the final approval. The “Done” means we are done with submitting the draft MoA. But we can change in case of any concerning issues raised by ChapCom or the community.
Of course, anyone can ask for a change to the MoA. So, please feel free to propose any changes here. But please be specific about the justification and benefits of the requested change.
And it's very much appreciated that the persons you mentioned in your mail care about community, not position/titles. We have twenty sections in the proposed MoA to check and review, which all can review for the community.
Ragib
User:Ragib on en and bn
-- Ragib Hasan, Ph.D NSF Computing Innovation Fellow and Assistant Research Scientist
Dept of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University 3400 N Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21218
Website: http://www.ragibhasan.com
Hello Mr. Nurunnaby,
I would like to answer to your query regarding the Act under which we are proposing for registration. For that, I have to discuss why other two options are not viable for setting up the Chapter.
First comes the Trusts Act.
As per Trusts Act, 1882 [1] (Chapter-1, Section-3): "A “trust” is an obligation annexed to the ownership of property, and arising out of a confidence reposed in and accepted by the owner, or declared and accepted by him, for the benefit of another, or of another and the owner: the person who reposes or declares the confidence is called the “author of the trust”: the person who accepts the confidence is called the “trustee”: the person for whose benefit the confidence is accepted is called the “beneficiary”: the subject-matter of the trust is called “trust-property” or “trust-money”: the “beneficial interest” or “interest” of the beneficiary is his right against the trustee as owner of the trust-property; and the instrument, if any, by which the trust is declared is called the “instrument of trust”."
If I simplify, a Trust is mainly created to manage trust property for the benefit of one or some beneficiary. So you see, Trust is not a practical option for us. Moreover, a Trust is managed by Trustees and it is difficult to change the Trustees (often requires judgement by the Civil Court).
Now I would discuss about registration with Social Welfare Department. Mainly cooperative societies are registered with Social Welfare Department under the Cooperative Societies Act, 2001. Cooperative societies are formed mainly for economic [2] benefit of it's members & most of the cooperative societies are involved with business. So, it is inconsistent with the purpose of Wikimedia Chapters. Moreover, cooperative societies are seldom audited and so there is lack of transparency.
On the contrary, registration of the Chapter under the Societies Registration Act [3] is more appropriate as the law defines: "Any seven or more persons associated for any literary, scientific or charitable purpose, or for any such purpose as is described in section 20 of this Act, may, by subscribing their names to a memorandum of association and filing the same with the Registrar of Joint-stock Companies form themselves into a society under this Act."
Hope you got your answer. Pls feel free to ask for any clarification regarding the proposed MoA.
Thanks
Ali Haidar Khan Tonmoy
[1] http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/pdf_part.php?act_name=&vol=&id=47 [2] http://www.banglapedia.org/httpdocs/HT/C_0347.HTM [3] http://bdlaws.minlaw.gov.bd/pdf_part.php?act_name=&vol=&id=10
On 5/28/11, Tanvir Rahman wikitanvir@gmail.com wrote:
Mr. Nurunnaby Hasive asked a question about the proposed MoA. As this thread was cross-posted to both Wikipedia-BN and Wikimedia-BD list, I think the people subscribed only to the Wikimedia-BD list did not get this email (Mr. Nurunnaby Hasive only posted it to Wikipedia-BN list). So, I am forwarding it.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Nurunnaby Hasive nhasive@bdosn.org Date: Sat, May 28, 2011 at 21:52 Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-BN] [Wikimedia-BD] Formation of Wikimedia Bangladesh
- (local chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation)
To: Bengali Wikipedia wikipedia-bn@lists.wikimedia.org
Dear All, After read this all post first congratulation to the team for the MoA. But i need to know something about one issue & i think its need to share with all. As far as i know we have three option for Bangladesh.
- A trust under Ministry of law (under trust act)
- A Society Under Society Act (This one proposed)
- A registration from Social Welfare depart.
Could any one explain why we go for option 2. I am not a legal person so it would be better if anyone explain why we go for society act.
Thanks
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Ragib Hasan ragibhasan@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Belayet,
I greatly appreciate that you have started a discussion about the MoA. For your information, the memorandum is not final until we get the final approval. The “Done” means we are done with submitting the draft MoA. But we can change in case of any concerning issues raised by ChapCom or the community.
Of course, anyone can ask for a change to the MoA. So, please feel free to propose any changes here. But please be specific about the justification and benefits of the requested change.
And it's very much appreciated that the persons you mentioned in your mail care about community, not position/titles. We have twenty sections in the proposed MoA to check and review, which all can review for the community.
Ragib
User:Ragib on en and bn
-- Ragib Hasan, Ph.D NSF Computing Innovation Fellow and Assistant Research Scientist
Dept of Computer Science Johns Hopkins University 3400 N Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21218
Website: http://www.ragibhasan.com
-- Best Regards, *Nurunnaby Hasive | নুরুন্নবী হাছিব |* Public Relation Coordinator *Bangladesh Open Source Network (BdOSN)* Jamil Sarwar Trust | 278/3 Elephant Road (3rd Floor) | Dhaka BdOSN http://www.bdosn.org
Wikipedia-BN mailing list Wikipedia-BN@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-bn
-- Tanvir Rahman http://bit.ly/wikitanvir
wikipedia-bn@lists.wikimedia.org