Now that we're about to move demo.wikinews.org to en.wikinews.org, we have to think about a procedure for setting up other language domains.
I support moving the demo to a URL which makes it clear the project is not temporary. However, it is also important to make clear to readers that the project is in Beta to avoid responses to the site being overly-critical in these early stages. This could be done via a beta.wikinews.org URL, but this becomes more complicated once other language domains are added, so perhaps a message in the site notice, or on the logo, would be more appropriate.
In the original proposal, I suggested that Wikinews can be set up in any accepted Wikimedia project language where there is at least one interested participant, and that 4 more regulars are required for the language to be recognized as "official", and for the firsts sysops to be created.
There is a proposed policy for new languages at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Policy_for_wikis_in_new_languages
There may be reasons for Wikinews to follow a different procedure to our other wikis though, since the process of creating a news site really needs more users than an encyclopedia. The proposed language policy currently states five users are needed. If this does not change, then the same policy can be applied to Wikinews.
If it is not, one possible alternative would be to immediately set up language domains for any language where there are more than 10 votes on the respective voting page on Meta, and more than 50% in favor.
I don't think the vote on whether to start the project is the same as a vote to have a language sub-domain once the project has started, so these votes should be discounted now. Any creation of a new language Wikinews should follow whatever the procedure is going to be used without reference to the previous vote.
In any case, I would ask for the immediate authorization of de.wikinews.org...
I haven't read the German mailing list, but from IRC, I had the impression that there were objections to this and that some wanted to wait until there was evidence the English version was running well before starting a German version. Could someone please confirm whether this is the case or whether there is already enough support for a German Wikinews?
The content that is currently on the Demo wiki is in the public domain in order to facilitate the migration to any other license.
It would be best to keep the project as public domain for a couple of weeks to allow users of the project to decide how they might want to use text from Wikipedia in future, and whether Wikipedians feel they want to be able to use text from Wikinews in Wikipedia articles. I would prefer a vote not be held immediately, to give people time to discuss which projects need to be compatible with each other, and how external users are likely to want to use Wikinews.
Angela.
Angela-
Now that we're about to move demo.wikinews.org to en.wikinews.org, we have to think about a procedure for setting up other language domains.
I support moving the demo to a URL which makes it clear the project is not temporary. However, it is also important to make clear to readers that the project is in Beta to avoid responses to the site being overly-critical in these early stages. This could be done via a beta.wikinews.org URL, but this becomes more complicated once other language domains are added, so perhaps a message in the site notice, or on the logo, would be more appropriate.
I agree, a Google-like "BETA" in the logo would be sufficient, IMHO.
I haven't read the German mailing list, but from IRC, I had the impression that there were objections to this
Well, there were objections to the English Wikinews as well. The question is - do they matter? We're not going to get consensus on any new language as some people remain opposed to Wikinews on principle. It seems unfair to start Wikinews in English only when there is a substantial number of German users who would like to use it now, and when there were many more objections by English users than by German ones.
Of all the possible options, waiting for full community consensus until we launch a new language seems the least feasible. There should be objective, fair criteria for launching a new edition. So from this standpoint, I suggest adopting the proposed policy currently on Meta.
I disagree that Wikinews requires a larger user base to be useful. It certainly requires a large userbase in order to present a balanced mix of news, just like Wikipedia does in order to provide a wide range of articles. But even a couple of dedicated users can provide reliable news on the subjects that interest them. Just think of the hundreds of weblogs which do just that. As long as we do not set up the expectation that Wikinews can immediately replace CNN in any language, we should be fine. The BETA marker helps with that.
I believe that the demo phase served the purpose of testing the basic idea of Wikinews, and that we should now move on to launch it in all languages where there is a community of users interested in working on it, unless clear and compelling reasons are cited for not doing so that relate specifically to that language, and not to the idea of the project itself.
Regards,
Erik
Angela wrote:
I haven't read the German mailing list, but from IRC, I had the impression that there were objections to this and that some wanted to wait until there was evidence the English version was running well before starting a German version. Could someone please confirm whether this is the case or whether there is already enough support for a German Wikinews?
I didn't intend to contradict Angela when I said "go ahead and create it" a few minutes ago. What she says should be done of course before creating it!
--Jimbo
Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales wrote:
I didn't intend to contradict Angela when I said "go ahead and create it" a few minutes ago. What she says should be done of course before creating it!
In my opinion, this strategy has a serious problem. People join and show their interest more easily if there is something to join. We've had 6 or 7 people in #de.wikinews two days ago.
This number won't increase with waiting for something to happen. There is currently a small but significant wave of press regarding wikinews and hey, it's a wiki. People won't understand it unless there is something to show.
I certainly want to start now and try to integrate all those who have objections against it. It took wikipedia 2 to 3 years to become an everyday-source of information. I guess it will take this amount of time (or even longer) for wikinews to become something that my mother could use. There is no point in delaying this development.
de. has a userbase, a significant demand and a general nescessity.
and so on...
Mathias
Angela wrote:
Could someone please confirm whether this is the case or whether there is already enough support for a German Wikinews?
I can confirm it. And I also confirm that "already" does not apply. Support for a vapourous thing won't increase. Please stop assuming that the success or failure or the whatever of en.wikinews will have a short term influence on de in case you do.
Mathias
Mathias Schindler wrote:
Could someone please confirm whether this is the case or whether there is already enough support for a German Wikinews?
I can confirm it. And I also confirm that "already" does not apply. Support for a vapourous thing won't increase. Please stop assuming that the success or failure or the whatever of en.wikinews will have a short term influence on de in case you do.
I just want to make it clear that I was never assuming one Wikinews would influence the success of another in the way that you imply. I was simply passing on the results of a discussion on IRC, in which I was led to believe that one of the German mailing lists had made a decision about this, and I wanted to clarify the situation before the wiki was created.
Anyhow, the wiki now exists and I have made Elian an administrator there and Mathias a bureaucrat as per requests via Jimbo.
Angela.
wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org