Tempodivalse and some other folks have started a fork of Wikinews. Thought I'd forward since it may be of interest to some folks.
Personally I'm interested to see where this goes and if they have success. At the end of the day, the more free content material that exists in the world the better, regardless of where it is created.
Cheers. -bawolff
Fwd from foundation-l
Greetings everyone,
I thought the Wikimedia community should know that a large portion of WIkinews' contributor base has forked into its own project (http://theopenglobe.org) after becoming deeply dissatisfied with Wikinews. The new wiki has finished its creation stage and is about ready to publish news articles.
At least nine users have pledged to support this fork, and several others (including non-WN Wikimedians) are interested - more than there are active remaining Wikinews contributors.
-Tempodivalse
Interesting Interesting. We talked of this many times, I'll be there watching to see how it goes.
Are there plans to implement all those fun tech toys we always wanted but never got?
-Jon
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 14:11, bawolff bawolff+wn@gmail.com wrote:
Tempodivalse and some other folks have started a fork of Wikinews. Thought I'd forward since it may be of interest to some folks.
Personally I'm interested to see where this goes and if they have success. At the end of the day, the more free content material that exists in the world the better, regardless of where it is created.
Cheers. -bawolff
Fwd from foundation-l
Greetings everyone,
I thought the Wikimedia community should know that a large portion of
WIkinews' contributor base has forked into its own project ( http://theopenglobe.org) after becoming deeply dissatisfied with Wikinews. The new wiki has finished its creation stage and is about ready to publish news articles.
At least nine users have pledged to support this fork, and several others
(including non-WN Wikimedians) are interested - more than there are active remaining Wikinews contributors.
-Tempodivalse
Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
I'll resurrect my iPhone app project if so... On Sep 12, 2011 5:30 PM, "Jon Davis" wiki@konsoletek.com wrote:
Interesting Interesting. We talked of this many times, I'll be there watching to see how it goes.
Are there plans to implement all those fun tech toys we always wanted but never got?
-Jon
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 14:11, bawolff bawolff+wn@gmail.com wrote:
Tempodivalse and some other folks have started a fork of Wikinews. Thought I'd forward since it may be of interest to some folks.
Personally I'm interested to see where this goes and if they have success. At the end of the day, the more free content material that exists in the world the better, regardless of where it is created.
Cheers. -bawolff
Fwd from foundation-l
Greetings everyone,
I thought the Wikimedia community should know that a large portion of
WIkinews' contributor base has forked into its own project ( http://theopenglobe.org) after becoming deeply dissatisfied with
Wikinews.
The new wiki has finished its creation stage and is about ready to
publish
news articles.
At least nine users have pledged to support this fork, and several
others
(including non-WN Wikimedians) are interested - more than there are
active
remaining Wikinews contributors.
-Tempodivalse
Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
-- Jon [[User:ShakataGaNai]] / KJ6FNQ http://snowulf.com/ http://ipv6wiki.net/
The Android code continues to sit in SVN, available to anyone.
http://code.google.com/p/enwikinews/
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 14:35, Terin Stock terinjokes@gmail.com wrote:
I'll resurrect my iPhone app project if so... On Sep 12, 2011 5:30 PM, "Jon Davis" wiki@konsoletek.com wrote:
Interesting Interesting. We talked of this many times, I'll be there watching to see how it goes.
Are there plans to implement all those fun tech toys we always wanted but never got?
-Jon
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 14:11, bawolff bawolff+wn@gmail.com wrote:
Tempodivalse and some other folks have started a fork of Wikinews. Thought I'd forward since it may be of interest to some folks.
Personally I'm interested to see where this goes and if they have success. At the end of the day, the more free content material that exists in the world the better, regardless of where it is created.
Cheers. -bawolff
Fwd from foundation-l
Greetings everyone,
I thought the Wikimedia community should know that a large portion of
WIkinews' contributor base has forked into its own project ( http://theopenglobe.org) after becoming deeply dissatisfied with
Wikinews.
The new wiki has finished its creation stage and is about ready to
publish
news articles.
At least nine users have pledged to support this fork, and several
others
(including non-WN Wikimedians) are interested - more than there are
active
remaining Wikinews contributors.
-Tempodivalse
Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
-- Jon [[User:ShakataGaNai]] / KJ6FNQ http://snowulf.com/ http://ipv6wiki.net/
Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
Ah, a couple of clicks on random page reveals seeding with VoA content.
The list of users I saw at casual inspection should manage pretty well for quality writing from themselves.
The review policy seems *very* casual; and, makes no really clear and emphatic mention of checking for copyvio.
I note Brad Patrick asking the "where's the money going" question. (heh).
A spectacularly remarkable resemblance to the enWN main page, but with a logo I find a bit,... "ugh" (the original Wikinews one was crap too, admittedly).
When there was discussion of enWN forking off from the WMF it was with the intent to take the name and marks, seek VC (I'll not go into that on-list), and fund "proper" OR/investigative journalism.
I see the site (well, wiki to be exact) essentially set up on Sept 4th. The domain was probably then, or within the following week. It's on the same host as techessentials.org (Joe there seemed to be having a few problems late August - http://pastebin.com/ZJiX1hGA).
They're looking to fund themselves via TE running their own advertising programme, and receipt of donations.
It might well work; simply reproducing VoA content and getting ad-clicks from that could well cover the cost of hosting the wiki through the initial days. But, only time will tell.
I can only comment on a few of the contributors I see there; they may well face similar decline as Wikinews did in the past when noticable numbers of contributors have headed off to college/uni and had zero free time.
In the words of the ancient Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times".
On Mon, 2011-09-12 at 14:30 -0700, Jon Davis wrote:
Interesting Interesting. We talked of this many times, I'll be there watching to see how it goes.
Are there plans to implement all those fun tech toys we always wanted but never got?
-Jon
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 14:11, bawolff bawolff+wn@gmail.com wrote: Tempodivalse and some other folks have started a fork of Wikinews. Thought I'd forward since it may be of interest to some folks.
Personally I'm interested to see where this goes and if they have success. At the end of the day, the more free content material that exists in the world the better, regardless of where it is created. Cheers. -bawolff Fwd from foundation-l > > Greetings everyone, > > I thought the Wikimedia community should know that a large portion of WIkinews' contributor base has forked into its own project (http://theopenglobe.org) after becoming deeply dissatisfied with Wikinews. The new wiki has finished its creation stage and is about ready to publish news articles. > > At least nine users have pledged to support this fork, and several others (including non-WN Wikimedians) are interested - more than there are active remaining Wikinews contributors. > > -Tempodivalse > > _______________________________________________ Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l-- Jon [[User:ShakataGaNai]] / KJ6FNQ http://snowulf.com/ http://ipv6wiki.net/
Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
Brian McNeil.
HI you all, I'm an user from Italian Wikinews. Could someone explain why do some people fork Wikinews in order to create another project? - Airon90
You're asking why they created a fork? It's simple enough. Enforcing editorial standards, as en.wn does, inevitably creates resentment. Some of these folks will have gone for the fork because they want to try to create a news site without that resentment (an admirable if naive goal; in my opinion, they haven't fully realized what it's going to mean for editorial standards, not to mention copyright liability). Some of them will have gone for the fork because they, personally, resent English Wikinews, and are eager for an opportunity to strike a blow against it (not such an admirable motive, though very human). And some will have gone for the fork out of a mixture of those two.
There are complications ---cultural conflict between en.wn and en.wp is notable, personal feud--- but that's the bottom line.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Michael Moroni michael.moroni@mailoo.orgwrote:
HI you all, I'm an user from Italian Wikinews. Could someone explain why do some people fork Wikinews in order to create another project?
- Airon90
Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
Most of the enforced editorial standards on en.Wikinews are about quality control and NPoV, so they aren’t strictly speaking necessary. Without them article quality will decrease, but both article quantity and creation-to-publication time will likely improve. Whether or not en.Wikinews’ editorial standards are good or not depends entirely on what your priorities for the project are. If you prioritize article quality (I do), then the current peer review system is an acceptable (though imperfect) way of achieving that. If you prioritize having lots of articles, then doing away with those standards is a way to achieve that goal. Because there is a difference of opinion on which of these paths to follow, I don’t disapprove of the fork, though I do see some problems in the road ahead.
My main concern about the fork is lack of copyright standards. About a year ago news organizations started suing *individual bloggers* for copyright infringement. Even individual bloggers that have low readerships. They won’t hesitate to sue a wiki, even if it only gets a few thousand hits a day.
Now it’s unlikely (though not impossible:P) that they’ll sue over a single infringement, but if they notice a pattern of copyright infringement they’ll go ballistic on you.
So my recommendation is that you keep one small part of the peer review process – the copyright section – just to stave off the inevitable lawsuits from the MSM. Newspapers and their online counterparts feel under threat, so it is of the upmost importance to any news wiki right now to make sure they aren’t drawing the attention of the MSM’s attack dogs.
gopher65
From: pi zero Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:11 AM To: Wikinews mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikinews-l] We've been forked! [fwd from foundation-l]
You're asking why they created a fork? It's simple enough. Enforcing editorial standards, as en.wn does, inevitably creates resentment. Some of these folks will have gone for the fork because they want to try to create a news site without that resentment (an admirable if naive goal; in my opinion, they haven't fully realized what it's going to mean for editorial standards, not to mention copyright liability). Some of them will have gone for the fork because they, personally, resent English Wikinews, and are eager for an opportunity to strike a blow against it (not such an admirable motive, though very human). And some will have gone for the fork out of a mixture of those two.
There are complications ---cultural conflict between en.wn and en.wp is notable, personal feud--- but that's the bottom line.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Michael Moroni michael.moroni@mailoo.org wrote:
HI you all, I'm an user from Italian Wikinews. Could someone explain why do some people fork Wikinews in order to create another project? - Airon90
_______________________________________________ Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
Most of the enforced standards on en.wn --- for purposes of review time, which *is* the primary limiting factor in our output --- are about not plagiarizing, and about being accurate. (It's striking how many people, even college students, have no clue how to use a source without plagiarizing from it.) *Obviously* we want to find ways to leverage reviewers' time better so as to improve our efficiency at such things (I'd like to think it's obvious, anyway; focusing on stuff like that would be productive), but whatever it takes to enforce those things is part of being a news site. There are other really important things that make contributing a challenge, but they aren't dominant in limiting our output and are also part of being news site or of being a quality news site (and they too are valuable skills for authors to acquire) --- focusing on a news event (which makes us hard news and is closely related to npov), inverted pyramid style, writing clearly and for an international audience.
RE: theopenglobe.org fork.
On Tue, 2011-09-13 at 09:56 -0400, pi zero wrote:
Most of the enforced standards on en.wn --- for purposes of review time, which *is* the primary limiting factor in our output --- are about not plagiarizing, and about being accurate. (It's striking how many people, even college students, have no clue how to use a source without plagiarizing from it.) *Obviously* we want to find ways to leverage reviewers' time better so as to improve our efficiency at such things (I'd like to think it's obvious, anyway; focusing on stuff like that would be productive), but whatever it takes to enforce those things is part of being a news site. There are other really important things that make contributing a challenge, but they aren't dominant in limiting our output and are also part of being news site or of being a quality news site (and they too are valuable skills for authors to acquire) --- focusing on a news event (which makes us hard news and is closely related to npov), inverted pyramid style, writing clearly and for an international audience.
We've often talked about partially automating plagiarism checking, but never actually implemented such.
To me, it seems like an interesting CompSci challenge. I believe there are a number of tools used in education to deal with part of the problem. However, our requirements are a little different from checking for "student ripped off final year paper from graduate at college X written three years ago".
I've a hunch that some interest, and a slightly clearer definition of requirements, would make it an interesting Google Summer of Code challenge/project.
In any case, give TheOpenGlobe a few months and see if they fare any better in a GoogleFight[1]. ;-)
[1] http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=theopenglobe&w...
Brian McNeil.
An interesting case study in plagiarism detection is an article I reviewed a few hours ago. It contained what looks, for all the world, like a deliberate attempt to slip plagiarism past the review process. How did I detect it? Peculiarities of the article triggered my instincts to look more closely, causing me to search for key words and phrases on the web, and find copyvio/plagiarism of an article not listed as a source.
After the stern lecture I gave Tempo, not so long ago, about lies damn lies and statistics, I'm not likely to put too much stock in googlefight --- but I concede it'll be interesting to see what happens, especially since even if *I* don't put much stock in it, I'm pretty sure Tempo does.
Pi zero
On Tue, 2011-09-13 at 18:23 -0400, pi zero wrote:
An interesting case study in plagiarism detection is an article I reviewed a few hours ago. It contained what looks, for all the world, like a deliberate attempt to slip plagiarism past the review process. How did I detect it? Peculiarities of the article triggered my instincts to look more closely, causing me to search for key words and phrases on the web, and find copyvio/plagiarism of an article not listed as a source.
After the stern lecture I gave Tempo, not so long ago, about lies damn lies and statistics, I'm not likely to put too much stock in googlefight --- but I concede it'll be interesting to see what happens, especially since even if *I* don't put much stock in it, I'm pretty sure Tempo does.
Someone disrupting the wiki to prove a point?
Sounds like the attempt failed. <chuckles>
I doubt it'd be Tempo; when I browsed TOG's Village Pump I noted xe stating checking for copyright violation came low - if at all - on their list of checking criteria. But, one assumes, above checking for infringement of someone else's trade mark.
Brian McNeil.
As a comp sci guy myself, I'll be interested in assisting with that endeavor.
On Tue, 2011-09-13 at 19:23 -0400, Terin Stock wrote:
As a comp sci guy myself, I'll be interested in assisting with that endeavor.
I'll contact you off-list regarding that, Terin.
As far as I can see, the biggest hurdle to overcome is that Google doesn't like automated querying. Which may mean a useful tool needs its own spider.
Brian McNeil.
Wikinews or Theo Pen, any feed which provides a newsticker like this http://www.shortnews.de/start.cfm?special=newsticker is welcomed to be integrated in http://dooble.sf.net browser start page
Can you provide this? Thanks Regards
2011/9/12 bawolff bawolff+wn@gmail.com
Tempodivalse and some other folks have started a fork of Wikinews. Thought I'd forward since it may be of interest to some folks.
Personally I'm interested to see where this goes and if they have success. At the end of the day, the more free content material that exists in the world the better, regardless of where it is created.
Cheers. -bawolff
Fwd from foundation-l
Greetings everyone,
I thought the Wikimedia community should know that a large portion of
WIkinews' contributor base has forked into its own project ( http://theopenglobe.org) after becoming deeply dissatisfied with Wikinews. The new wiki has finished its creation stage and is about ready to publish news articles.
At least nine users have pledged to support this fork, and several others
(including non-WN Wikimedians) are interested - more than there are active remaining Wikinews contributors.
-Tempodivalse
Wikinews-l mailing list Wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
wikinews-l@lists.wikimedia.org