Actually, 2 of our philosophy books are rather missionary too, one mostly advocating for a "Universal Religion". I don't think there's any baby in that bathwater... both the religious groups and the athiest groups should just start another wiki without the NPOV restriction. I suppose there could be "relative point of view", but even then it seems the relative groups would get pretty small (i.e., "A baptist, a pentecostal, and an episcopalian go into a bar to try to write a wikibook on christian doctrine... <insert punchline here>").
I think keeping the textbook definition fairly vague is better than pigeon-holing it. Aside from texts that might be used for graduate school through kindergarden, there is other materials that might be used for emergency preparedness and response, scouting, etc. Even some of the most mundane of the how-tos (how to tie a tie, shaving, etc.) might be a good "textbook for the school of life" if a single mom is trying to help her male child get better opportunities.
A book on frisbee golf (not sure if there is one, but there probably will be eventually) can be used in gym class or by a father and son tossing team. The first aid book can be used to train EMTs or 10 year olds. A book on horticulture can help train agricultural workers, as could a book on agriculture help gardeners get a leg up. The cookbook might be good for culinary school, while at the same time being useful for anyone who eats.
I do understand the dislike for video game guides... I don't think I'd want to see a book on "how to use a beer bong" for similar reasons. Some video games are (I'm told) educational, and I think having something about them might be ok. Shoot-em-up games (etc.) might be good for hand-eye coordination, but having a book about the game isn't necessarily going to enhance this.
IOW, textbooks need to be useful for building mind, body, career opportunities, and perhaps houses, but should they be written for building (or debunking) souls? That way leads to somewhere we might not want to go.
-johnny.
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SBJohnny wrote:
Actually, 2 of our philosophy books are rather missionary too, one mostly advocating for a "Universal Religion". I don't think there's any baby in that bathwater...
That book already had been up for VfD this year (i dont remember precisely when), but the general consensus was to keep it because it didnt violate NPOV, and didn't explicitly violate Original Reseach. That book is what I would call a "grey area", and without a specific "textbook" definition, most people were reluctant to delete it because it wasn't a cut-and-dry case.
I think keeping the textbook definition fairly vague is better than pigeon-holing it. Aside from texts that might be used for graduate school through kindergarden, there is other materials that might be used for emergency preparedness and response, scouting, etc.
Precisely! The word "textbook" can be so vast if we want it to be. Consider youth groups, or senior-citizen groups. Consider excercise classes at the gym, or home-improvement courses at home depot. There is alot of material that can be learned outside the walls of a school or university. A definition for "textbook" would need to account for all of this, without allowing all the blatant nonsense. This contradiction is, i think, the reason why we haven't produced a satisfactory definition for the word yet.
I do understand the dislike for video game guides... I don't think I'd want to see a book on "how to use a beer bong" for similar reasons. Some video games are (I'm told) educational, and I think having something about them might be ok. Shoot-em-up games (etc.) might be good for hand-eye coordination, but having a book about the game isn't necessarily going to enhance this.
Again, a grey area that we can't really decide on one way or another until we define "textbook". Unfortunately, the decision might be made for us, because it seems like the videogame guides that we have left are migrating out of their own accord.
--Andrew Whitworth
textbook-l@lists.wikimedia.org