Few other popular sites use MediaWiki as their primary CMS. Basically it's just us, Wikia, and wikiHow AFAIK. I'd definitely go to wikihow.com and check out what they've done in their just-launched redesign.
Here's a screenshot of their previous homepage, for comparison: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/9/9a/20131019173222%21Wiki...
Well a number of sites have been doing this a lot lately, the position of the top bar or <div id = "header_outer"> in wikihow.com is *fixed* so even after reading the last line of article one does not need to scroll back up. The top bar provides certain functionality easily like searching, help section, log in etc.
I personally am trying to figure out whether this is possible in Wikipedia or not. While reading long articles, it is very tedious to scroll up for a search box or even for accessing the index !!
Would love to hear more on it. Thanks.
Thanks, Arnav http://arnavs.com/. (User:Rangilo_Gujarati) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rangilo_Gujarati .
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.orgwrote:
Few other popular sites use MediaWiki as their primary CMS. Basically it's just us, Wikia, and wikiHow AFAIK. I'd definitely go to wikihow.com and check out what they've done in their just-launched redesign.
Here's a screenshot of their previous homepage, for comparison: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/9/9a/20131019173222%21Wiki...
-- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
I am actually working on some experimental designs for this type of thing right now.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 3:47 AM, Arnav Sonara sonara.arnav@gmail.com wrote:
I personally am trying to figure out whether this is possible in Wikipedia or not. While reading long articles, it is very tedious to scroll up for a search box or even for accessing the index !!
--- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Fantastic !!
I would love to test it and know more about it. Thanks.
Thanks, Arnav http://arnavs.com/. (User:Rangilo_Gujarati) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rangilo_Gujarati .
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.orgwrote:
I am actually working on some experimental designs for this typeof thing right now.
On Oct 22, 2013, at 3:47 AM, Arnav Sonara sonara.arnav@gmail.com wrote:
I personally am trying to figure out whether this is possible in
Wikipedia or not. While reading long articles, it is very tedious to scroll up for a search box or even for accessing the index !!
Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Brandon will this be a beta feature at BetaFeatures launch? If not why? :)
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.org wrote:
I am actually working on some experimental designs for this type of thing right now.On Oct 22, 2013, at 3:47 AM, Arnav Sonara sonara.arnav@gmail.com wrote:
I personally am trying to figure out whether this is possible in Wikipedia or not. While reading long articles, it is very tedious to scroll up for a search box or even for accessing the index !!
Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
On Oct 22, 2013, at 11:54 AM, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
Brandon will this be a beta feature at BetaFeatures launch? If not why? :)
A) I don't know when BetaFeatures launches;
B) I'm only coding a prototype;
C) I'm going on vacation starting Saturday
--- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
hopefully we'll have a prototype linked up to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Beta_Features/New_Features#Fixed_Site_Headerb... end of week for you to check out.
* * * * *Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Brandon Harris bharris@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Oct 22, 2013, at 11:54 AM, Jon Robson jdlrobson@gmail.com wrote:
Brandon will this be a beta feature at BetaFeatures launch? If not why?
:)
A) I don't know when BetaFeatures launches; B) I'm only coding a prototype; C) I'm going on vacation starting Saturday
Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 04:17:52PM +0530, Arnav Sonara wrote:
Well a number of sites have been doing this a lot lately, the position of the top bar or <div id = "header_outer"> in wikihow.com is *fixed* so even after reading the last line of article one does not need to scroll back up. The top bar provides certain functionality easily like searching, help section, log in etc.
I actually really dislike this trend for websites. For most computers vertical space is the premium, and using extra just for navigation that you won't need except at the end of an article is a waste in my opinion. This is probably less true for large-ish portrait devices like tablets (when in portrait orientation), but in general I far prefer to not have any navigation chrome around when I'm actually reading. Wikihow actually does this even worse than just the green header, as the "Steps" header also becomes fixed when one scrolls through the articles.
Indeed, lack of vertical space is an issue for a lot of laptops, where the screen space is more width than height - so users need what height they can get for the actual content. Having the navigation on the side can work well for that, but can cause issues for non-laptops...
Really, I've found sites that just duplicate the navigation at the end to be the best - have the main pile at the top, and then have the most relevant bits also on the bottom so folks can just keep going without having to scroll back up, which is useful regardless of what kind of device you happen to be using. Particularly effective for things like webcomics and blogs, but a bit of creativity could probably apply the principle to just about anything...
On 23/10/13 10:32, Nick White wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 04:17:52PM +0530, Arnav Sonara wrote:
Well a number of sites have been doing this a lot lately, the position of the top bar or <div id = "header_outer"> in wikihow.com is *fixed* so even after reading the last line of article one does not need to scroll back up. The top bar provides certain functionality easily like searching, help section, log in etc.
I actually really dislike this trend for websites. For most computers vertical space is the premium, and using extra just for navigation that you won't need except at the end of an article is a waste in my opinion. This is probably less true for large-ish portrait devices like tablets (when in portrait orientation), but in general I far prefer to not have any navigation chrome around when I'm actually reading. Wikihow actually does this even worse than just the green header, as the "Steps" header also becomes fixed when one scrolls through the articles.
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Indeed, vertical space is of importance.
Lately chrome and firefox on mobile devices (at least on android) have implemented better design to tackle this.
It assumes that when we are reading the text in lower paragraphs we don't need address bar, so as soon as you scroll up, the address bar *hides* and you get extra space or something like full screen mode. The moment you scroll down, the address bar will be shown again. I've attached two screen shots regarding this.
I am curious to know if any websites have implemented this.
Thanks. On Oct 24, 2013 4:16 AM, "Isarra Yos" zhorishna@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed, lack of vertical space is an issue for a lot of laptops, where the screen space is more width than height - so users need what height they can get for the actual content. Having the navigation on the side can work well for that, but can cause issues for non-laptops...
Really, I've found sites that just duplicate the navigation at the end to be the best - have the main pile at the top, and then have the most relevant bits also on the bottom so folks can just keep going without having to scroll back up, which is useful regardless of what kind of device you happen to be using. Particularly effective for things like webcomics and blogs, but a bit of creativity could probably apply the principle to just about anything...
On 23/10/13 10:32, Nick White wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 04:17:52PM +0530, Arnav Sonara wrote:
Well a number of sites have been doing this a lot lately, the position of the top bar or <div id = "header_outer"> in wikihow.com is *fixed* so even after reading the last line of article one does not need to scroll back up. The top bar provides certain functionality easily like searching, help section, log in etc.
I actually really dislike this trend for websites. For most computers vertical space is the premium, and using extra just for navigation that you won't need except at the end of an article is a waste in my opinion. This is probably less true for large-ish portrait devices like tablets (when in portrait orientation), but in general I far prefer to not have any navigation chrome around when I'm actually reading. Wikihow actually does this even worse than just the green header, as the "Steps" header also becomes fixed when one scrolls through the articles.
______________________________**_________________ Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/designhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
______________________________**_________________ Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/designhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Arnav, we are definitely thinking about how a fixed header would behave differently on mobile and desktop (more generally, responsive to screen size) but a good thing to bring up, thank you.
* * * * *Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Arnav Sonara sonara.arnav@gmail.comwrote:
Indeed, vertical space is of importance.
Lately chrome and firefox on mobile devices (at least on android) have implemented better design to tackle this.
It assumes that when we are reading the text in lower paragraphs we don't need address bar, so as soon as you scroll up, the address bar *hides* and you get extra space or something like full screen mode. The moment you scroll down, the address bar will be shown again. I've attached two screen shots regarding this.
I am curious to know if any websites have implemented this.
Thanks. On Oct 24, 2013 4:16 AM, "Isarra Yos" zhorishna@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed, lack of vertical space is an issue for a lot of laptops, where the screen space is more width than height - so users need what height they can get for the actual content. Having the navigation on the side can work well for that, but can cause issues for non-laptops...
Really, I've found sites that just duplicate the navigation at the end to be the best - have the main pile at the top, and then have the most relevant bits also on the bottom so folks can just keep going without having to scroll back up, which is useful regardless of what kind of device you happen to be using. Particularly effective for things like webcomics and blogs, but a bit of creativity could probably apply the principle to just about anything...
On 23/10/13 10:32, Nick White wrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 04:17:52PM +0530, Arnav Sonara wrote:
Well a number of sites have been doing this a lot lately, the position of the top bar or <div id = "header_outer"> in wikihow.com is *fixed* so even after reading the last line of article one does not need to scroll back up. The top bar provides certain functionality easily like searching, help section, log in etc.
I actually really dislike this trend for websites. For most computers vertical space is the premium, and using extra just for navigation that you won't need except at the end of an article is a waste in my opinion. This is probably less true for large-ish portrait devices like tablets (when in portrait orientation), but in general I far prefer to not have any navigation chrome around when I'm actually reading. Wikihow actually does this even worse than just the green header, as the "Steps" header also becomes fixed when one scrolls through the articles.
______________________________**_________________ Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/designhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
______________________________**_________________ Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/designhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
My favorite part is that someone took the time to redesign the original toolbar while keeping the trumpet. The trumpet lives. It lives!
http://www.wikihow.com/index.php?title=Draw-a-Skull&action=edit
One thing I noticed is the two editing modes. If you just want to go ahead and edit, it says "edit". If you want to do more complex thing and get the markup toolbar it says "advanced edit". Could that be terminology (or thinking) we can borrow? Edit is VE while Advanced edit is wikitext edits. That gives experienced editors some implicit credit that they are doing advanced things.
*Med vänliga hälsningar, Jan Ainali*
Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida 0729 - 67 29 48
2013/10/22 Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org
My favorite part is that someone took the time to redesign the original toolbar while keeping the trumpet. The trumpet lives. It lives!
http://www.wikihow.com/index.php?title=Draw-a-Skull&action=edit
-- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Jan Ainali jan.ainali@wikimedia.sewrote:
One thing I noticed is the two editing modes. If you just want to go ahead and edit, it says "edit". If you want to do more complex thing and get the markup toolbar it says "advanced edit". Could that be terminology (or thinking) we can borrow? Edit is VE while Advanced edit is wikitext edits. That gives experienced editors some implicit credit that they are doing advanced things.
This is something they've done for awhile I think. And it's similar to Wikia's option to edit with a form.
Anyway, this dichotomy (where you pick wikitext or VE while in edit mode, rather than having two buttons) is something Vibha is working on actively.
For those interested in the community reaction, this is a good read: http://www.wikihow.com/wikiHow_talk:Redesign :)
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Jan Ainali jan.ainali@wikimedia.sewrote:
One thing I noticed is the two editing modes. If you just want to go ahead and edit, it says "edit". If you want to do more complex thing and get the markup toolbar it says "advanced edit". Could that be terminology (or thinking) we can borrow? Edit is VE while Advanced edit is wikitext edits. That gives experienced editors some implicit credit that they are doing advanced things.
This is something they've done for awhile I think. And it's similar to Wikia's option to edit with a form.
Anyway, this dichotomy (where you pick wikitext or VE while in edit mode, rather than having two buttons) is something Vibha is working on actively.
-- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
On 13-10-22 10:47 AM, Maryana Pinchuk wrote:
For those interested in the community reaction, this is a good read: http://www.wikihow.com/wikiHow_talk:Redesign :)
also
http://forums.wikihow.com/discussion/7051/wikihow-redesign http://forums.wikihow.com/discussion/7054/redesign-bug-thread
