The thing that bugs me most is that when you move your finger over the left hamburger button and press it the page moves to the left. Your finger is still above the button. This doesn't apply to the right menu. Your finger is now above something else. This to me is very jarry and always feels icky.

I'm beginning to exhibit raging hatred of the right nav concept... Firstly.. Ergg. two settings is confusing (site and user) - they should be the same page and there is no reason why they can't be. It would be great if when logged in the settings page morphed from device specific to user specific. Would be great to be able to activate alpha on all my devices.

In terms of a right nav, the more I think about it and having played with a prototype I knocked up, the more I think a right nav is bad. Although it seems to be becoming an established pattern it seems like an easy option that in my opinion is badly implemented. We can do better and should lead by example. For one I never touch the Facebook one... it just doesn't come natural. I also don't like the idea of 2 menus. I wonder if we could envision 2 stacked menus that can be toggled between and persist when selected.

The thing that bugs me most is that when you move your finger over the left hamburger button and press it the page moves to the left. Your finger is still above the button. This doesn't apply to the right menu. Your finger is now above something else. This to me is very jarry and always feels icky.

It still leaves the question of where things such as watch star, talk page link, edit, move and delete buttons go. The bottom would make sense for an app, but position fixed is buggy in the majority of current mobile browsers and we will need a fallback of some sort.

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Jon Robson <jrobson(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote: Is it just the "nav" part that bothers you, and not so much the "right" and "my stuff" part? What if we had a little person icon to the right of the search bar, and tapping that opened an overlay with pretty visualizations of your recent editing and uploading activity, as well as links to your watchlist and talk page? *That's* what I ultimately want to work toward; in my mind, the nav part was always just a stepping stone, but maybe we don't actually need that stepping stone and can just go directly to (sneakily) beginning work on a totally new, totally rad mobile userspace :) -- Maryana Pinchuk Associate Product Manager, Wikimedia Foundation wikimediafoundation.org _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design

You're right, Vibha; a picture is worth a thousand words :) Jon, ignoring the specific elements of what's in the "me" menu (all just placeholders at this point), does my scribbling below make more sense conceptually? Despite the "nav" in the title, the story card actually leaves implementation pretty open: https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/mobile/cards/579. I can clarify in the title of the card and the A.C. that this should be an overlay, not a nav. Does that address some of your concerns? Inline image 1 On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Vibha Bamba &lt;vbamba(a)wikimedia.org <mailto:vbamba@wikimedia.org>> wrote: At this point we should be doing this at a whiteboard. There are some legitimate concerns but text is hardly a medium to improve ideas =] On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Maryana Pinchuk &lt;mpinchuk(a)wikimedia.org <mailto:mpinchuk@wikimedia.org>> wrote: On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Jon Robson &lt;jrobson(a)wikimedia.org <mailto:jrobson@wikimedia.org>> wrote: I'm beginning to exhibit raging hatred of the right nav concept... Firstly.. Ergg. two settings is confusing (site and user) - they should be the same page and there is no reason why they can't be. It would be great if when logged in the settings page morphed from device specific to user specific. Would be great to be able to activate alpha on all my devices. In terms of a right nav, the more I think about it and having played with a prototype I knocked up, the more I think a right nav is bad. Although it seems to be becoming an established pattern it seems like an easy option that in my opinion is badly implemented. We can do better and should lead by example. For one I never touch the Facebook one... it just doesn't come natural. I also don't like the idea of 2 menus. I wonder if we could envision 2 stacked menus that can be toggled between and persist when selected. To quote http://www.upassoc.org/upa_publications/jus/2011august/faulkner2.html "... Kingsburg and Andre carried out two studies with 16 users and found in both of their studies that selection from a left-hand menu was faster than from a right-hand menu (2004). However, their research also showed that selections were best done from the same panel, whether that was on the right or left. Thus it is better to have a single design, either on the left or the right, rather than a mixed navigational method that requires the user to select from both left and right panels (Kingsburg & Andre, 2004). This is hardly surprising and is both predicted and supported by Fitts’ Law. (1954)." The thing that bugs me most is that when you move your finger over the left hamburger button and press it the page moves to the left. Your finger is still above the button. This doesn't apply to the right menu. Your finger is now above something else. This to me is very jarry and always feels icky. It still leaves the question of where things such as watch star, talk page link, edit, move and delete buttons go. The bottom would make sense for an app, but position fixed is buggy in the majority of current mobile browsers and we will need a fallback of some sort. Is it just the "nav" part that bothers you, and not so much the "right" and "my stuff" part? What if we had a little person icon to the right of the search bar, and tapping that opened an overlay with pretty visualizations of your recent editing and uploading activity, as well as links to your watchlist and talk page? /That's/ what I ultimately want to work toward; in my mind, the nav part was always just a stepping stone, but maybe we don't actually need that stepping stone and can just go directly to (sneakily) beginning work on a totally new, totally rad mobile userspace :) -- Maryana Pinchuk Associate Product Manager, Wikimedia Foundation wikimediafoundation.org <http://wikimediafoundation.org> _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Design@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Design@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design -- Maryana Pinchuk Associate Product Manager, Wikimedia Foundation wikimediafoundation.org <http://wikimediafoundation.org> _______________________________________________ Design mailing list Design(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design