The whole point of having a living style guide was to prevent the endless proliferation of outdated MediaWiki style guides (as we were creating about 1 a year for a while). Now we're somehow doing the same thing yet again. Is it really impossible for us to stick to a single style guide?
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 4:22 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Hi.
Re: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Design/Living_style_guide
This page is kind of sad right now. It references http://tools.wmflabs.org/styleguide pretty heavily, but my understanding from https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T88036 is that http://living-style-guide.wmflabs.org is the actual style guide now? I'm not really sure and I'm worried that if I can't keep up, nobody else stands a chance! ;-) But really, we want to make sure everyone is discussing the same project.
It would be great if someone more knowledgable than me (about the living style guide!) could update the wiki page and the description of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/living-style-guide/, at least with the best URL, if tools.wmflabs.org/styleguide is no longer it.
MZMcBride
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
This has actually been a long time coming, and will be the canonical LSG. It's built into MediaWiki, supports live controls and code snippets, and uses OOjs UI. There's still a lot of stuff missing and neither design nor content are final.
With that said, we can do a better job proactively communicating the progress of this effort, deprecating old content, and keeping the wiki up-to-date. I would ask all members of the UX team to help with that.
Erik
I'm all for updating the style guide. But what I don't understand is why we have to keep setting up competing style guides in different locations. This does nothing but confuse people.
On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
This has actually been a long time coming, and will be the canonical LSG. It's built into MediaWiki, supports live controls and code snippets, and uses OOjs UI. There's still a lot of stuff missing and neither design nor content are final.
With that said, we can do a better job proactively communicating the progress of this effort, deprecating old content, and keeping the wiki up-to-date. I would ask all members of the UX team to help with that.
Erik
-- Erik Möller VP of Product & Strategy, Wikimedia Foundation
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Ryan, we'll sort through and decommissioned all the other guides when we launch this one, any help tracking all of the ones out there in the wild is appreciated.
Jared Zimmerman wrote:
Ryan, we'll sort through and decommissioned all the other guides when we launch this one, any help tracking all of the ones out there in the wild is appreciated.
My goal at the moment is to get these two pages updated:
* https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Design/Living_style_guide * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/living-style-guide/
We're a few replies deep in this thread and I still don't know where the One True Living Style Guide lives. :-/ Every instance of the living style guide's documentation should include links to the living style guide and its source code, in my opinion. There's too much confusion here currently and we want to (try to) ensure we're all talking about the same project.
MZMcBride
On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 8:57 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
We're a few replies deep in this thread and I still don't know where the One True Living Style Guide lives. :-/
Yes it's confusing. The other discussion on the design list, in https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/design/2015-February/002246.html is helpful.
My goal at the moment is to get these two pages updated:
this now mentions both.
I also edited https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OOjs_UI to mention the MediaWiki theme in 1.25, and https://living-style-guide.wmflabs (Andrew, Prateek, Trevor, it's your call when to remove the "early draft" caveats.)
The reality is some forms in core, 16 extensions, and an unknown number of on-wiki gadgets use the mediawiki.ui* modules, so IMO we shouldn't eliminate a fine generated demonstration of how it works. But we should be clear that going forward, using OOjs UI will be the way to UX consistency. (I'm still unclear about the timing of "going forward" and "will".)
Every instance of the living style guide's documentation should include
links to the living style guide and its source code, in my opinion.
I'm not sure what you mean, but that sounds right.
More to do: * revamping https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_UI , I've made a few edits already * mention OOjs UI in the mediawiki.ui LSG (gerrit patch to resources/src/mediawiki.ui welcome)
Thanks for caring!
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 5:56 PM, S Page spage@wikimedia.org wrote:
- mention OOjs UI in the mediawiki.ui LSG (gerrit patch to
resources/src/mediawiki.ui welcome)
What's the source for the https://tools.wmflabs.org/styleguide/ landing page so we can make it not-awful if we're going to keep it around for a while longer while mediawiki.ui is still in use?
Erik
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 5:56 PM, S Page spage@wikimedia.org wrote:
- mention OOjs UI in the mediawiki.ui LSG (gerrit patch to
resources/src/mediawiki.ui welcome)
What's the source for the https://tools.wmflabs.org/styleguide/ landing page so we can make it not-awful if we're going to keep it around for a while longer while mediawiki.ui is still in use?
It's in the 'styleguide' project on tools labs, which is maintained by S, Prateek, JonR, and MattF.
Kaldari
Sorry for the late reply.
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 10:27 AM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
My goal at the moment is to get these two pages updated:
I updated these pages after S's initial edits. I added the technologies being used and the topics we are planning to cover. Is there anything else that I should add?
On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 3:34 AM, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
I'm all for updating the style guide. But what I don't understand is why we have to keep setting up competing style guides in different locations. This does nothing but confuse people.
I don't think they are competing style guides, they are just different for different technologies (the mediawiki.ui LESS files and the MediaWiki theme in OOjs UI). They still have (or at least strive to have) the same design. The reason we setup a new one was due to the limitations of KSS. OOjs UI has JavaScript widgets that can't be documented with KSS. We also wanted to add non-CSS documentation like a primer on typography and iconography but KSS allows for only on Markdown file in the introduction, making it difficult to achieve this.
I agree that it confuses people :( I hope documentation helps! I am happy to clarify anywhere else you might think it'll help.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
What's the source for the https://tools.wmflabs.org/styleguide/ landing page so we can make it not-awful if we're going to keep it around for a while longer while mediawiki.ui is still in use?
Its not-awful now.
—prtksxna
On Feb 9, 2015 3:55 AM, "Prateek Saxena" psaxena@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
What's the source for the https://tools.wmflabs.org/styleguide/ landing page so we can make it not-awful if we're going to keep it
Its not-awful now.
Thanks for prettying it up a little. Could you make the following additional changes:
- Add introduction: "This page describes the use of the mediawiki.ui styles available as LESS files in MediaWiki core. Longer term, the goal is to convert controls over to the use of <a href=" https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OOjs_UI">OOjs UI</a>, which is a library available in PHP and JavaScript, and which supplies multiple themes, including a MediaWiki theme consistent with these styles. A living style guide based on OOjs UI can be found <a href=" http://living-style-guide.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page">here</a>."
Obviously feel free to tweak the language if anything is inaccurate.
- Remove the "Coming" section, unless there's relevant content (currently it leads to a 404).
Ironically, the "mobile" section is currently not mobile-friendly. Is it still relevant?
Thanks,
Erik
On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
- Add introduction: "This page describes the use of the mediawiki.ui
styles available as LESS files in MediaWiki core. Longer term, the goal is to convert controls over to the use of <a href=" https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OOjs_UI">OOjs UI</a>, which is a library available in PHP and JavaScript, and which supplies multiple themes, including a MediaWiki theme consistent with these styles. A living style guide based on OOjs UI can be found <a href=" http://living-style-guide.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page">here</a>."
I was about to suggest the same thing.
Ironically, the "mobile" section is currently not mobile-friendly. Is it
still relevant?
Yes, this is still the primary style guide used for mobile development.
I created a Phabricator task for the various style inconsistencies between mediawiki.ui and OOjs UI: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T88449. It looks like Prateek and May are already working on it :) Thanks guys!
Kaldari
On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 10:26 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
- Add introduction: "This page describes the use of the mediawiki.ui styles
available as LESS files in MediaWiki core. Longer term, the goal is to convert controls over to the use of <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OOjs_UI">OOjs UI</a>, which is a library available in PHP and JavaScript, and which supplies multiple themes, including a MediaWiki theme consistent with these styles. A living style guide based on OOjs UI can be found <a href="http://living-style-guide.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page">here</a>."
Done. Thanks Erik!
On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 10:26 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
- Remove the "Coming" section, unless there's relevant content (currently it
leads to a 404).
S, do you know how these were being generated?
On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Prateek Saxena psaxena@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 10:26 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
- Remove the "Coming" section, unless there's relevant content
(currently it
leads to a 404).
I removed it. That was when Flow's UI was in advance of the styles in core.
S, do you know how these were being generated?
Adjust the files in the styleguide project on tools-login.wmflabs.org to build something different, copy the generated core/docs/kss/static/ somewhere, add a link to public_html/index.html
I manually rebuilt the MobileFrontend KSS. The automated script needs a newer version of npm than is on tools-login, https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89093