Hi everyone,
As Jared and I hinted at previously, we're about to launch a new iteration on the "typography refresh" beta feature for Vector users.
You can find all the details about what we've changed at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Typography_refresh
Note: this won't go live to all wikis until this Thursday. You can see some of the latest changes by using the beta on mediawiki.org, but we're actually making a few final tweaks as we speak this afternoon. For a comprehensive list of what will change, see the link I posted above.
This is neat, but the screen width change feels a little insane. MediaWiki content pages tend to be built with the assumption that there's lots of room to float objects alongside the content, so when you suddenly limit the available width to 715px, those pages (with infoboxes or whatever) start to look crappy.
This is of course why MobileFrontend reformats a lot of this content, and if we want to be smarter about screen width on the desktop, then I think we have to be a _lot_ smarter about how content is displayed than just hardcoding a limit.
Beyond that I love the changes and would keep it enabled as a user.
Erik
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
As Jared and I hinted at previously, we're about to launch a new iteration on the "typography refresh" beta feature for Vector users.
You can find all the details about what we've changed at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Typography_refresh
Note: this won't go live to all wikis until this Thursday. You can see some of the latest changes by using the beta on mediawiki.org, but we're actually making a few final tweaks as we speak this afternoon. For a comprehensive list of what will change, see the link I posted above.
-- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Erik, glad you like it, I pushed everyone to be a little radical, in order to start discussion, and start people thinking about things like this. Time permitting I want Jon to experiment with http://simplefocus.com/flowtype/for article pages. We have some ideas about how to take related content and highlight it in the new sidebar created by the narrower margin. You can get some idea of what that would look like from the search mockup here http://invis.io/6ULU31BK
Also Insane seems to be pretty harsh as the narrower measure is based on much of the same research, and best practices as the narrower measure for Flow. Imagine a likely scenario, such as article talk where flow and an article might benefit from being side by side in a 2 column layout.
*Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation
M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
This is neat, but the screen width change feels a little insane. MediaWiki content pages tend to be built with the assumption that there's lots of room to float objects alongside the content, so when you suddenly limit the available width to 715px, those pages (with infoboxes or whatever) start to look crappy.
This is of course why MobileFrontend reformats a lot of this content, and if we want to be smarter about screen width on the desktop, then I think we have to be a _lot_ smarter about how content is displayed than just hardcoding a limit.
Beyond that I love the changes and would keep it enabled as a user.
Erik
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
As Jared and I hinted at previously, we're about to launch a new
iteration
on the "typography refresh" beta feature for Vector users.
You can find all the details about what we've changed at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Typography_refresh
Note: this won't go live to all wikis until this Thursday. You can see
some
of the latest changes by using the beta on mediawiki.org, but we're
actually
making a few final tweaks as we speak this afternoon. For a comprehensive list of what will change, see the link I posted above.
-- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
-- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Don't get me wrong - I agree we absolutely need to get smarter about text flow and measure. There's a lot of work involved in getting this right, though. I'd recommend sorting out any remaining issues with the typography refresh, and building a separate beta feature for text flow/measure experiments, so we can push the other changes into prod soon unless there are major reasons not to.
Erik
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Jared Zimmerman < jared.zimmerman@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Erik, glad you like it, I pushed everyone to be a little radical, in order to start discussion, and start people thinking about things like this. Time permitting I want Jon to experiment with http://simplefocus.com/flowtype/for article pages. We have some ideas about how to take related content and highlight it in the new sidebar created by the narrower margin. You can get some idea of what that would look like from the search mockup here http://invis.io/6ULU31BK
Also Insane seems to be pretty harsh as the narrower measure is based on much of the same research, and best practices as the narrower measure for Flow. Imagine a likely scenario, such as article talk where flow and an article might benefit from being side by side in a 2 column layout.
*Jared Zimmerman * \ Director of User Experience \ Wikimedia Foundation M : +1 415 609 4043 | : @JaredZimmermanhttps://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Erik Moeller erik@wikimedia.org wrote:
This is neat, but the screen width change feels a little insane. MediaWiki content pages tend to be built with the assumption that there's lots of room to float objects alongside the content, so when you suddenly limit the available width to 715px, those pages (with infoboxes or whatever) start to look crappy.
This is of course why MobileFrontend reformats a lot of this content, and if we want to be smarter about screen width on the desktop, then I think we have to be a _lot_ smarter about how content is displayed than just hardcoding a limit.
Beyond that I love the changes and would keep it enabled as a user.
Erik
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
As Jared and I hinted at previously, we're about to launch a new
iteration
on the "typography refresh" beta feature for Vector users.
You can find all the details about what we've changed at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Typography_refresh
Note: this won't go live to all wikis until this Thursday. You can see
some
of the latest changes by using the beta on mediawiki.org, but we're
actually
making a few final tweaks as we speak this afternoon. For a
comprehensive
list of what will change, see the link I posted above.
-- Steven Walling, Product Manager https://wikimediafoundation.org/
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
-- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Design mailing list Design@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
Erik Moeller wrote:
Don't get me wrong - I agree we absolutely need to get smarter about text flow and measure. There's a lot of work involved in getting this right, though. I'd recommend sorting out any remaining issues with the typography refresh, and building a separate beta feature for text flow/measure experiments, so we can push the other changes into prod soon unless there are major reasons not to.
Yep.
Relatedly, all beta experiments are currently "timeless." No version number, no "last updated" date, etc. We may want to reconsider this, as we're already seeing confusion between iterations (i.e., typography refresh refresh or typography update update).
Jared Zimmerman wrote:
Time permitting I want Jon to experiment with http://simplefocus.com/flowtype/ for article pages.
There's no deadline. :-) FlowType.JS looks really neat, but I agree that putting any of the layout experiments in the typography update is jarring.
Imagine a likely scenario, such as article talk where flow and an article might benefit from being side by side in a 2 column layout.
This is an area where I think real-world statistics would be helpful. Optimizing for the large monitor crowd is easy because designers often have (several) large monitors. But I think we need to know what readers/users actually have out in the wild to figure out how to best prioritize resources.
MZMcBride
On Wed, Jan 08, 2014 at 01:27:01AM -0500, MZMcBride wrote:
This is an area where I think real-world statistics would be helpful. Optimizing for the large monitor crowd is easy because designers often have (several) large monitors. But I think we need to know what readers/users actually have out in the wild to figure out how to best prioritize resources.
Extension:MultimediaViewer is currently gathering data including a rough approximation of screen size.
I say "rough approximation" because it's actually the size of an image that we load into the browser window, but it may be good enough to give a rough estimate of what users use to browse the site(s), because we try really hard to make the image size really close to the window size.
I have a query ready to generate a CSV for this, but no dashboard yet. I will report back!