Long-time fan, first-time poster ;)
I have never been comfortable with the proliferation of Wikimedia lists. ComProj is one of the ones that I love in spirit and principle, because it is an open project that is compatible with any number of copies of itself. But I would find it much easier to contribute to comproj-related initiatives if they were discussed on, say, foundation-l and #wikimedia. You could start all of those threads with [comproj] if you wanted.
If you are worried about flooding some people with too much information -- keep the high-flood discussions on a wiki, where people can choose their own watchlists and review an entire thread at once, and link to them when starting a new one. Or, as Simon suggests, actively explore new tools for collaboration.
But we hurt ourselves by making so many separate (and often unnecessarily private) lists and channels. Meanwhile the main lists and channels have dropped in traffic since their peaks in 2006. No surprise - that's when all of the committees and walled gardens started being built. The process must be addictive, because this has been a known problem for years, and we keep doing it.
How about organizing a list- and irc-chan-consolidation campaign? I think this would help communication and community building a lot, and wold be motivated by such a campaign. It would also be an interesting first step in getting people to think about what sorts of new comm technologies we could be supporting or developing.
Sj
Hi,
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Samuel Kleinmeta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
I have never been comfortable with the proliferation of Wikimedia lists. ComProj is one of the ones that I love in spirit and principle, because it is an open project that is compatible with any number of copies of itself. But I would find it much easier to contribute to comproj-related initiatives if they were discussed on, say, foundation-l and #wikimedia. You could start all of those threads with [comproj] if you wanted.
You're pointing to the wrong issue. The issue is not that "people don't contribute to Comproj activities because they're discussed on a dedicated list / IRC channel". The issue is that "Comproj is mostly dead because the foundation staff doesn't provide any guidance to volunteer groups such as Comproj". Comproj has been very successful for short-term, specific tasks where their help was requested on the list (the PR cleanup inventory for instance).
The bottom line is that while professionalizing itself, the foundation has slowly been forgetting their volunteer basis (and the awesome support they can provide).
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:10 AM, Guillaume Paumierguillom.pom@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Samuel Kleinmeta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
I have never been comfortable with the proliferation of Wikimedia lists. ComProj is one of the ones that I love in spirit and principle, because it is an open project that is compatible with any number of copies of itself. But I would find it much easier to contribute to comproj-related initiatives if they were discussed on, say, foundation-l and #wikimedia. You could start all of those threads with [comproj] if you wanted.
You're pointing to the wrong issue. The issue is not that "people don't contribute to Comproj activities because they're discussed on a dedicated list / IRC channel". The issue is that "Comproj is mostly dead because the foundation staff doesn't provide any guidance to volunteer groups such as Comproj". Comproj has been very successful for short-term, specific tasks where their help was requested on the list (the PR cleanup inventory for instance).
Point taken.
The bottom line is that while professionalizing itself, the foundation has slowly been forgetting their volunteer basis (and the awesome support they can provide).
I agree that this is the proximal issue (though Sue from time to time says just the right things, as when testing the speed efficacy of OTRS). And this should be addressed soon, since the professionalization is happening more rapidly than the rate of community growth (and some professional volunteers are leaving).
I stand by my other point, that [assuming it had things to do] ComProj could be much larger / have much more visibility if it were not contributing to another problem, which is fragmentation of centers for discussion / planning / notification.
We do not yet suffer from too much shared information about foundation-level projects that are of short-term importance. Until that happens, we should consolidate and broadcast more widely.
SJ
Hi,
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 13:10, Guillaume Paumierguillom.pom@gmail.com wrote:
You're pointing to the wrong issue. The issue is not that "people don't contribute to Comproj activities because they're discussed on a dedicated list / IRC channel". The issue is that "Comproj is mostly dead because the foundation staff doesn't provide any guidance to volunteer groups such as Comproj". Comproj has been very successful for short-term, specific tasks where their help was requested on the list (the PR cleanup inventory for instance).
I mostly agree with you here Guillom but would like to be more specific again: the problem is not that ComProj is incapable of doing jobs without WMF staff guidance, it's that ComProj simply doesn't have the work to begin with. If only WMF staff would pass things down, give the information required and pass on responsibility then ComProj has the people to get it done (while obviously staff involvement would make the process better, my point is that ComProj could probably be useful with minimal such input).
A Communication Projects Group needs projects.
S